I, for one, am glad to see this type of debate taking place in Germany. As Stern maganizne wrote "The insecurity about how to deal with Nazism is huge. As is ignorance. Eva Herman has unwittingly kicked off a long-neglected debate." This debate will go along way in how Germans deal with Germany's history.

Some Germans See Positive Aspects to Nazi Rule, Poll Shows | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 18.10.2007

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

When I was a kid, my father told me that one positive thing about the Nazi regime was that they built motorways. That was as far as he would go in seeing positive things about the Nazi regime, and it is as far as I would go.

However, to claim that a regime cannot have done anything good is contra-productive, when it comes to a debate on the pros and cons of the ideology or politics of that regime. There are extremely few things that can be said to be only negative. In mathematics, the numbers lower than zero can be described as only negative, but what else is there?

Thus, to state that a regime only did bad stuff is illogical and would not convince any intelligent human. It is better to say that the overwhelming stuff that the regime did was bad.

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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.

The nazis created a new pride, something to work for collectively. They also promoted a strong family. They also crossed all income lines in their educational and army facilities and gave equal oppertunity to all.

Except for the racism and ultra-pratriotism it wasnt a bad ideology. If they could have transformed it to include all nations and races instead of exclude all others it would have been better.

Bizarre comments.

The Nazi ideology was one of the most ferociously brutal in history. It was based on the assumption that the Nordic race was instrinsically superior. If they had "included all nations and races" they wouldn't be Nazis.

The expansion of the German economy between 1933 and 1939 was hardly a unique manifestation of Nazi ideology. It was simply a case of massive government spending, primarily on public works and a huge re-armament progam. As for equal opportunity - it is not clear what this could possibly mean. Anyone who questioned or disagreed or criticized was immediately punished. The punishments set the standard for sheer horror, matched only by Stalin and later by Pol Pot and Mao's China.

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"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Is it because Zionists started to irritate the hell out of Germans again?

I don't blame Germans. $13.7 billions so far and dosen of military submarines shipped to the state of Israel would make any thinking german citizen to ask 'why this haven't ended yet and for how long we are going to feed them sacrificing our own well being?'

Oh yeah, here is a friendly to the US folks link I got figures from:

THE MEDIA BUSINESS: ADVERTISING; A Germany-Israel heritage travel program. So why not? - New York Times

No doubt a tricky and difficult subject for Germany.

But the challenge of how to deal with politically correct fanatic authoritarians ought to be just as important. In my opinion, Europe has swung over too far on the side of authoritarian political correctness upon this issue.

Without a doubt, the Nazi regime did have many good points. Adolf Hitler was extremely popular around the world in the mid 1930's with the "German miracle". People like to forget that Hilter was the toast of the town in 1936.

I agree with DGG that is nearly implausible not to find something done by a hideous regime that wound up a positive whether it be intended or not. The better way is to show how the bad falls through the floor on the measuring scale.

However, to avoid allowing poisonous people slyly to make a bad regime sound good or not so bad, like neo-Nazis and sympathisers with that regime or its ideologies, it's important to be armed with the full facts on what is claimed to be 'good.' (Note: I am not inferring any poster yet on this thread is such a person).

For example, the Autobahn and much of the new 1930s employment and economy was intended and geared towards the Nazi military preparations for its intended wars. The Autobahn is viewed as a good thing to have today for the daily civilian use of Germany, but the original intent behind it was largely evil. The Germans would have built a superhighway structure under a peaceful regime anyway at some point like many First World nations have. The same can be said about this woman talking about the merits of traditional family structures. The Nazis took a valid concept and twisted it into something evil, such as the 'lebensborn' programme for breeding the 'master race.' So called Aryan women were forbidden abortion, but Jews and other 'undesireables' were encouraged to abort and/or were even subjected to experiments. Of course, mass extermination of all 'undesireables' followed. Healthy concepts such as scouting were twisted into Hitler Youth where poisonous indoctrination was fused into healthy scouting and sports.
Schools and universities were hijacked and refitted to serve Nazi ideologies, even its malicious quack 'science' on racial matters.

What the Nazis did, really, was take already good concepts and things and manipulate their strengths to serve evil purposes so that the virally infected good aspects camouflaged and/or won over the people to evil. There wasn't any real 'good side' to them.

Like what?

Or you are softly conditioning us all for an upcoming hard core style regime in the US? God save us.

Very valid points O'Sullivan. However, I do disagree with some of your thoughts. For example, the Autobahn. The autobahn was planned and begun before the Nazis came to power in Germany. The original intent was mainly a military one, but I wouldn't label it as "evil". Germany had been regarded for sometime as the "Battleground of Europe". This came about from the 30 Years War. The German states, even when united into single nation, were always in a pretty bad strategic location where they were surrounded by, more or less, hostile nations. That made the rapid movement of men and supplies a priority in every German state. Even more so than their European counterparts. They had to react quickly to any and every threat. This was the thought process that was mainly behind the Autobahn, and I wouldn't classify it as an evil.

Secondly, the Hitlerjugend. I personaly know 3 former members of the organization and they spoke of no political indoctrination in their respective "troops". That being said, it certainly did happen in some. The point I am making though is that it is dangerous to make broad generalizations like you did, even when it comes to the Third Reich.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

ThorHammer,

What is "30 Years War" you skimed like we all supposed to know?

And "they were surrounded by, more or less, hostile nations"...Like what? Was it Poland? France? What time frame are you talking about?

I can't really think of a whole lot that's positive about the Nazi regime. Maybe a lot easier to find parking around synagogues, but that's about it.

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“Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.” -Dr. Carl Sagan

I warned you once kid. Don't fuck with me.

If you had an education, you would know that the "30 Years War" was fought during the first half of the 17th century and ends with the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The war involved most of Europe and was fought mostly on German soil.

Fucking kids - they act like they know everything yet they ultimately know very little.

Do you need us to explain WW1 or WW2 for you too?

oh fuck

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Very good point OSB.

I do think the Nazis had a relatively positive reputation during the mid-1930's period. They did make the trains run on time and they did 'put a chicken in every pot' as it were. This was a substantial achievement at that time. As I said, in 1936, the Nazis were getting positive press around Europe, in Britain and in the USA most of all - and hosting the 1936 Olympic games.

And lets not forget the Volkswagen!

I'm not praising the Nazis, I'm just treating the historical record with honesty.