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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sampson View Post
You're missing something. The bill would have allowed people to sue the Iraqi government, in US courts, to recover damages from Iraqi assets held in US financial institutions. This is nothing at all like the German government, which volutarily paid reparations to victims of the Third Reich. If the Iraqis have a beef with Sadam, let them take it directly to their own government. There is no reason to involve our judiciary.
They want to go after Iraqi assets. Want to bet on how many Iraqi banks are holding Iraqi government assets in a government negative cash flow circumstance? Even Saddam once used US banks for operating purposes when he was our puppet. Zero balance accounts fed by a master account.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2008
Kevin Sampson Kevin Sampson is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
They want to go after Iraqi assets. Want to bet on how many Iraqi banks are holding Iraqi government assets in a government negative cash flow circumstance? Even Saddam once used US banks for operating purposes when he was our puppet. Zero balance accounts fed by a master account.
Irrelevant. Let them make their case to the Iraqi government. If the government wishes to recompense them, they can do so out of these same accounts.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
anobsitar's Avatar
anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
Maybe it was Russians who destroyed Dresden inhabited mostly by civilians? ...
Russians? 20000 women in Berlin killed themselves for the honor of the russian army.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
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mabus mabus is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
It's you who fails. Take a look in this page Die Entwicklung des nationalsozialistischen Lager- und Haftstättensystems and you can see that the concentration camp system - including the destruction camps - exploded as Word War II started. In war it's very easy to loose control. And please: I don't like to discuss it really, because I'm a German too - but I lost lots of my family members in concentrations camps and I lost lots of my family members dying in World War II. The Nazis never believed in god - that's a lie. The Nazis were fighting for the "german race". Lots of germans believed in the blue eyes of "Der Führer" - that's all. Nearly no one saw the truth - even it was possible to see the truth.

My mother got once 5000 D-Marks (was in this times about $1000) for her killed father and her four killed brothers. Her children were hungry - so she took the money and I'm alive. That's all. (Both families lost hundreds of thousands.)

Exodus 23,1-9
Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness. Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd, and do not show favouritism to a poor man in his lawsuit. If you come across your enemy's ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to take it back to him. If you see the donkey of someone who hates you fallen down under its load, do not leave it there; be sure you help him with it. Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits. Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty. Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds those who see and twists the words of the righteous. Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.
I read your post but I really didnt get your point. You say I failed, but yet you did not say in doing what. I pointed out that the mass of germans knew about the holocaust, they saw how their sons, husbands and fathers deported their jewish friends and neighbours, yet there was no massive uprising - unlike when the nazis tried to implement their euthanasia programme. I know from various former members of the waffen-ss and wehrmacht that the mass of soldiers knew there were special units whose only objective was to gather jews together and kill them all. The idea that one can keep an industrialstyle killing of millions of people a secret is - to my mind - ridiculous. Yet the millions of german wanna-be patriots were not upset because of what was happening in the name of their "so beloved people". These days, the arrogance and the hate must have been so strong in this generation that one must have been close to be able to tough it physically. Yet did the ordinary people, those who often became victims of the war themselves (like my grandparents who lost their homeland forever), do nothing. Blame it on the german "Obrigkeitshörigkeit", blame it on the early victories in the war, or blame it on the "Autobahnen", but there was no strong opposition against Hitler in Germany. Not in 1923, not in 1933 and not in 1945, either. There were no protests at the railway stations when the trains left for Auschwitz, week for week. This generation did not realize what it was doing until it had laid Europe in ruins and brandished their nation's legacy with an everlasting stigma. To my mind, an entire generation of the german people simply failed to match the basic requirements of the term "civilization". The fact that most of them became victims of the stupidity of the masses does - in my eyes - not relativate their unbearable crimes, not even in the slightest manner.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
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anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I read your post but I really didnt get your point. You say I failed, but yet you did not say in doing what. I pointed out that the mass of germans knew about the holocaust,
The most knew nothing - even ist was possible to know about. That's a difference. And I hate it reallly to discuss this problems.

Quote:
they saw how their sons, husbands and fathers deported their jewish friends and neighbours,
So what? They lived in fear that there sons, husband and fathers could also be deported by their sons, husbands and fathers. There was not really a difference between jewish germans and other germans. Brothers are murdering brothers. This is the way dictatorship always works: find an enemy- wether it is one or not doesn't make any matter.

Quote:
yet there was no massive uprising - unlike when the nazis tried to implement their euthanasia programme.
Would be nice to live in Germany in the years 1933-1945, if the Nazis would not exist - but they existed. What are you really talking about? I never said, that there were no reasons for World War II. I hate it only, that there is often said chrstinas were the reason for the desaster in Germany. It was the atheism that bore this very big problems.

Quote:
I know from various former members of the waffen-ss and wehrmacht that the mass of soldiers knew there were special units whose only objective was to gather jews together and kill them all. The idea that one can keep an industrialstyle killing of millions of people a secret is - to my mind - ridiculous.
A industrial killing of people needs not many people that really know what is going on.

Quote:
Yet the millions of german wanna-be patriots were not upset because of what was happening in the name of their "so beloved people". These days, the arrogance and the hate must have been so strong in this generation
Seems for me you are thinking all germans were Nazis in this days, but it was not in this way.

Quote:
that one must have been close to be able to tough it physically. Yet did the ordinary people, those who often became victims of the war themselves (like my grandparents who lost their homeland forever), do nothing. Blame it on the german "Obrigkeitshörigkeit", blame it on the early victories in the war, or blame it on the "Autobahnen", but there was no strong opposition against Hitler in Germany.
Strong oppositon against Hitlker? What are you talking about? Where do you come from? From all imperators of Germany no one in the whole history was tried to be killed in so many ways how Hitler. It was like the trying to kill the devil itself. He seemed to be unhurtable. I counted more then 40 times Germans tried to kill Hitler.

Quote:
Not in 1923, not in 1933 and not in 1945, either. There were no protests at the railway stations when the trains left for Auschwitz, week for week.
What are you really talking about? The reality or the pictures in you brain?

Quote:
This generation did not realize what it was doing until it had laid Europe in ruins and brandished their nation's legacy with an everlasting stigma.
What a nonsens. Germany is a respected part of the European Union and I'm very proud to be a German. You are talking about a nightmare that ended decades ago. And it was my families nightmare and not your nightmare. Please - I don't like that atheistic people are fighting against christians using me an my families nightmare as a weapon. I hate this. Hitler had nothing to do with god and everyone who is telling it in another way is a liar. Stalin and Hitler - both - were devils.

Quote:
To my mind, an entire generation of the german people simply failed to match the basic requirements of the term "civilization". The fact that most of them became victims of the stupidity of the masses does - in my eyes - not relativate their unbearable crimes, not even in the slightest manner.
I'm a victim of the unbearable crimes of my people - and I can live with. If you can not, then stay away - that's no probem for me. I don't like it that you are trying to hurt people, that I love more than anyone else in the world.
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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
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erikvv erikvv is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

It seems you are talking to eachother but not quite about the same things.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
MilleVanille's Avatar
MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
Russians? 20000 women in Berlin killed themselves for the honor of the russian army.
I feel pity that not 2.000.000.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sampson View Post
Irrelevant. Let them make their case to the Iraqi government. If the government wishes to recompense them, they can do so out of these same accounts.
But you have no problem using the US judicial system to freeze US bank accounts held by countries who disagree with US policy? If the US blocks Iraq civil efforts to reach into Iraqi US bank accounts for re-compensation those accounts become off-limits to all withdrawals other than those approved by the US. More unpopular puppet government protection?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
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anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
I feel pity that not 2.000.000.
50% of my mothers familiy was murdered by the Nazis. Her sister lived in this days in Berlin. She saved lots of medical equipment from destruction and maybe she helped thousands of Germans to survive in this days. Think we have different opinions about what "honor" and "justice" is. The hate education of the commies seems to be still active. But I'm intrested - really interested - how people can say such stupid things an not to be ashamed the same time deeply in their hearts.

By the way: my father was in this days in Russia and he escaped. All Russians he met in this days helped him to find the way home and no one tried to kill him. He was about 17-18 years in this days and he was nothing else than a poor child that lived in a big adventure that became a nightmare too.

It's really sad - very sad - how many people are thinking crazy things and I hope my savior will help all people to find the truth in their hearts. This truth is very simple, very calm and without any hate.
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Last edited by anobsitar; 01-26-2008 at 11:32 PM.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008
anobsitar's Avatar
anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
It seems you are talking to eachother but not quite about the same things.
There is only one truth in the world.
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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2008
Kevin Sampson Kevin Sampson is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
But you have no problem using the US judicial system to freeze US bank accounts held by countries who disagree with US policy?

That's a very general question, so I'll give you a general answer; I wouldn't rule it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
If the US blocks Iraq civil efforts to reach into Iraqi US bank accounts for re-compensation those accounts become off-limits to all withdrawals other than those approved by the US.
Ridiculous. They become off-limits to anyone except the Iraqi government itself, as they should be. By the way, you do realize that the judiciary is a branch of the US government, don’t you? So, by arguing for the intervention of US courts in this matter, you are actually advocating what you profess to oppose: US control of Iraqi assets.

Last edited by Kevin Sampson; 01-27-2008 at 08:20 AM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2008
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MilleVanille MilleVanille is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post

By the way: my father was in this days in Russia and he escaped. All Russians he met in this days helped him to find the way home and no one tried to kill him. He was about 17-18 years in this days and he was nothing else than a poor child that lived in a big adventure that became a nightmare too.
That was mistake. Our problem is that we are too kind. This must be corrected. They should kill him, because this poor 17-18 y.o. child was a MURDERER.

Quote:
The hate education of the commies seems to be still active.
Propaganda in Soviet Union told that German people were forced by evil Hitler to work on him. And that german people are not responsible for the crimes of Hitler. Of course, this was a lie.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
I repeat, the problem that Russians DID NOT EXTERMINATE Germans. But Germans DID EXTERMINATE Russians. Moreover, Germans had the PLAN OF EXTERMINATION of Russians (it is available in documents), but Russians did not have.
Source?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008
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anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilleVanille View Post
That was mistake. Our problem is that we are too kind. This must be corrected. They should kill him, because this poor 17-18 y.o. child was a MURDERER. ...
Drugs? ... hmm ... I think so. Makes no sense to talk with people like you.
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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
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On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008
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anobsitar anobsitar is offline
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Re: Iraq vs Germany ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Source?
This plans existed. It also existed plans to kill 70% of all Austrians - even Hitler was born there. Maybe it also existed plans to kill all Americans. The Nazis were incredible morderous.
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