So today Erdogan was in Köln giving a speech to the Turks, of which there are millions in the region. What sparked my attention was that he said that the Turks should not want to assimilate, that assimilation is a crime against humanity, and he called for the founding of Turkish schools, universities and political movements.

On itself it's not a nice gesture towards the German and other governements, but its outrageous considering he does not grant these same rights to the Kurds which are native to Turkey.

Trend News : Erdogan cheered by 16,000 Turks in Cologne

He held his speech in Turkish, while he can speak German too.

A sad day for integration - but let's face it.

We Germans don't like the "turkish Germans" anyway - they are simply too turkish. Not western enough and they refuse to adjust. When I was a youth all German women where "German whores" to them and we were the "German potatoes" while they are the honorable turkish. We were separated from the kindergarten on. Not b/c we Germans refused them, but because they refused to play with us Germans. They were told by their parents.

Hmm... nothing good will come out of this...

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Me to?

What about Django Asül?

Erdogan is a dreamer of the old turkish dream to conquer europe. This is not really a new story. Erdogan is named "the conquerer of europe". This dream exists 1000 years in this way.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

What do you mean by conquer Europe?

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What I disliked even more was the attack on a fireman by some turks! It took only 2 minutes until they arrived at the spot - I can't imagine help would've been so quick in turkey!?

Anyway, Erdogans support for a parallel society of turks within germany undermines all efforts to better integrate turks into the german society. This puts a different light on his pro-eu-stand - imho turkey has a long way to go to qualify for a eu-membership!

well from where I sit, I think its counter productive as well.....they are coming to YOUR home.....at the very least they could attempt to understand the people culture etc, in short, their HOSTS….....I am really surprised he said such a thing with his apparent wishes for EU membership and all..

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Obama-e fungis nati homines....

I agree with pretty much everything said so far. If anything, I believe this will only increase support for extreme parties like the NPD (or the next incarnation).

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Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

That is dangerous talk from him. Not just from the political aspects, but there might be even more clashes between Turks and `host´-nation folk.
I have talked matters like these with people from Holland and Germany and they all have stated that Turks are not following nations law in which they live in. And that original folk have had enough.

If they cannot respect and follow laws and customs of the land they move into, they should be kindly quided off.
If they follow our laws, and customs, but retain their own customs, they are welcomed to stay.(that's my take)

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

Um. Are we talking about German citizen of Turkish ancestry or Turks residing in Germany here?

I think both.

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Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

Ah. Well, in that case, I strongly disagree with this:

Laws are one thing. AFAIK, German law does not require citizens to adhere to "German customs". Whatever they are.

I do not know where you live in Germany. Where I come from there are no Nazis. I haven't seen one my whole life (only in the media). But there are the Turkish and we can watch how they buy the old houses in old quarters of the city and establish a cultural sanctuary not willing to adjust in the necessary amount. Nearly every German teenager has had problems with the Turkish here when I was that age. That's why they are not too well liked here.

They always stay in groups of their own kind and don't really mix up. They've also this antiquated thinking of them being superior, which probably has its origins in a collective inferiority-complex. The problem here is, that they can't get rid of it as long as this behaviour continues. I'd say, if you watch it through the objective lense, that it's more a problem of poverty and them being lower class than a problem of races. If they would adjust more, they would have a better education and this could fix the problem.

I postulate that the "German turkish" fuel the fire instead of trying to reduce it. German mindsets aren't the problem, nor is it a lack of german will to integration. The turkish themselves carry the brunt of this problem.

Other ethnic minorities in Germany don't seem to have these problems. I know good integrated Russians and Bulgarians. But their parents were academics when they came here and they adapted German culture (while maintaining their own) in no time. A factor of matter is probably that they didn't come in these numbers. But why don't the Italians then share the turkish problems? There's only one answer: It's their mindset and the resulting behaviour which in turn fuels the fire again.

It's a vicious circle.


Ausnahmen bestätigen die Regel. Mit dem würd ich jederzeit einen trinken gehen.

What do I mean? Is anyone not knowing what is going on in the world? I mean that the turks/the osmans/the "seldschuken" (don't know the english expression for "Seldschuken") tried to conquer europe since a very long time. They were the main reason for the crusades. But they won in centuries more and more power. Erdogans nickname in Turkey is "conquerer of europe". The poltics in his case is it to win the war against europe with the babies of the women and replace the existung indigen european populations by Turks.

One of his jokes he did in the moment in Germany, where in Ludwigshafen a house burned and nine people died. It was a desaster and no one knows in the moment how this could happen - but Erdogan used this weak moment to send his hate in the hearts of the turkish people in Germany. His messsage was "Assimilation from Turks in Germany is a crime and a break of the human rights". But the people that died were Alevits - and Turks themselves are killing Alevits in Turkey - specially this kind of muslims are killing Alevits Erdogan is one of them.

By the way - but this is very important too: I'm very shocked about that one man in this desaster lost his mother, his wife and his two children. Now he's very alone and full of pain. But this man spoke against any hate between Turks and Germans. A very great man.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

no wonder that you wrote this in German - but indeed it's in this way, that Django Asül as a Turk is a more a German than other Germans are. Maybe he's is also more Turk than other Turks. But does it really mean anything in his case? No - nothing. It depends always on the single person how someone or a situation is. In Germany we don't have very big problems with Turks - if you compare this to the problemes in Great Britain or the problems in France.

The way for the next years is clear: If someone likes to have the same chances in the german society than everyone else has he must learn the german language. This is the only way - there's no other way. So if there is only one way - why not to go this way? The better all people are able to communicate - the better will be the understanding.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery