I agree that much of the fight has gone out of Europe. That is why if this scenario ever happens, I hope the United States would come in and fight along side Russia.

I just don't see such and alliance between Russia and China happening. That being said, should they ever form an alliance and go to war with the US and the EU, I doubt very much they would be able to win.

I agree on the EU part, but not when it comes to NATO.

__________________
Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

The following should be considered when contemplating the direction of Russia:

American Expeditionary Force Siberia

Bolsheviks killed at Vladivostok by the Czechoslovak LegionsThe American Expeditionary Force Siberia was commanded by Major General William S. Graves and eventually totaled 7,950 officers and enlisted men. The AEF Siberia included the U.S. Army's 27th and 31st Infantry Regiments, plus large numbers of volunteers from the 13th and 62nd Infantry Regiments along with a few from the 12th Infantry Regiment.[2]

Although General Graves did not arrive in Siberia until September 4, 1918, the first 3,000 American troops disembarked in Vladivostok between August 15 and August 21,1918. They were quickly assigned guard duty along segments of the railway between Vladivostok and Nikolsk-Ussuriski in the north.[3]

Unlike his Allied counterparts, General Graves believed their mission in Siberia was to provide protection for American-supplied property and to help the Czechoslovak Legions evacuate Russia, and that it did not include fighting against the Bolsheviks. Repeatedly calling for restraint, Graves often clashed with commanders of British, French and Japanese forces, who also had troops in the region and wanted him to take a more active part in the military intervention in Siberia.


[edit] Logistical problems and casualties
The experience in Siberia for the soldiers was miserable. Problems with fuel, ammunition, supplies and food were widespread. Horses accustomed to temperate climates were unable to function in sub-zero Russia. Water-cooled machine guns froze and became useless.

The last American soldiers left Siberia on April 1, 1920. During their 19 months in Siberia, 189 soldiers of the American Expeditionary Force Siberia died from all causes. As a comparison, the smaller American North Russia Expeditionary Force experienced 235 deaths from all causes during their 9 months of fighting near Arkhangelsk. [4]

How many posting here were aware of our incursion into Russia ?

I am. What is your point?

__________________
Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

That's already happening but not on a military basis. Russia begins suppling large amounts of crude oil to China this year and a Caspian pipeline for natural gas is planned for completion in 2009, bypassing a similar pipeline by Western interests. China and Russia are concentrating on economic development while the US wastes its treasure and debt facilitation on failed military aggression.

And Leon's getting larger.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

fucker. Made me spit out my coke!

__________________
Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

Sorry guys. I couldn't help myself.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Which is a good thing. There are still many europeans who have personal experience of war, this resentment has brought a long period of peace to the continent, something others can only dream about.

To go look for war, which is notoriously hard to win, is viewed as not being in our interest. The cost of the war in Iraq is closer to one trillion dollars now, in who's interest is it to spend that much on a regime change (to possible shiite theocracy) in Iraq? Have more than a trillion dollars been gained?

If you mean have special interests used public debt funding for profit purposes at public expense to encumber our children's children, yes.

I'd love to get a list of the newsmedia you use on the internet. Could you please post the links here?

How many of the russian nationals on the forum wish the whites would have won the civil war? In light of what happened in Russia under the communist regime, the (halfhearted) western intervention should be seen as a humanitarian mission.

It was noted so that those who were unaware of such action would better understand some of what lies behind the frictions between Russia and the West.

Comprender ?

In the European Union people are routinely imprisoned for criticising the consequences of immigration under the guise of "inciting hatred" and I do not have to point out that people have been imprisoned for challenging the Hollywood version of WWII in numerous EU states such as Germany.

In addition I see no reason why Russia should join the EU; the Russians have enough resources to survive without the EU. The Russians also enjoy self-government and are not bound by the dictates of your disingenuous human wrongs convention. Why should Russia surrender even an inkling of their sovereignty to join a bloc that will rape their resources and destroy their culture via immigration and human wrong convention mandates?

Just because the EU is kinder and gentler in its oppression does not mean that they offer anything but oppression.

No, they are not routinely imprisoned for criticising immigration, everybody does it all the time, and "hate speech" is outlawed in Russia as well. See this link for an example. This is much more limiting on free speech than any western hate speech legislation, nowhere in the west are you imprisoned (for five years!) for comparing the president or prime minister to Slobodan Milosevic.

This legislation would have to be abolished if Russia wanted membership.

That is not what I said; nice straw man though. I said that people are routinely imprisoned for criticising the consequences of immigration.

How many Europeans have been arrested for their criticism of Islam for example; BNP leader Nick Griffin and Mark Collett were arrested for little more that insulting Islam in the UK...

Let's run a comparison; Dr. David Duke's book "Jewish Supremacism" was published in Russia and openly sold; do you think this would be permitted in Germany or France?

In Russia I can challenge the traditional view of the holocaust without being jailed; could I do the same in Austria?

In Germany Ernst Zundel was imprisoned for FIVE YEARS for challenging aspects of history; how do you figure this is better? Hell, I can debate the Soviet Gulags or the Ukraine famine in Russia without fear of imprisonment and so could my opponent; try to debate the Nazi camps or the holocaust in the EU police states and then tell me which society has greater freedom after you are arrested, cuffed and dragged off to prison by EU police thugs.

Which speaks of the rank hypocrisy of the EU that jails people for their expressed views on history that do not meet the approval of the state!