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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

Maybe this is why the Swiss invaded.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Maybe this is why the Swiss invaded.
The Swiss invaded whom?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The Swiss invaded whom?
Liechtenstein.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Liechtenstein.
When has Switzerland ever invaded Liechtenstein?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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When has Switzerland ever invaded Liechtenstein?
About a year ago.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Swiss in Liechtenstein 'invasion'
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-29-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
Man, by that means the US has invaded Austria several times each year in the recent past...

No there is a difference even, Switzerland did it accidentally, the US does it deliberately.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by erikvv View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGG
Well, the lesson taught by stories like those about the "rouge states" should be that the domestic tax rules need to be reformed. Most people have no interest in evading taxes, they are happy to contribute to society by paying their taxes. However, the more people who try to evade taxes, the more sick your domestic tax schemes must be.
I think you got this wrong. The fact that some people break the law doesn't mean the law is wrong.
No, I do not think I have gotten it wrong. However, I think you are confusing tax law with criminal law.

The purpose of tax law is to make the most revenue to the State with the least detrimental effects on society and the general economy. If many people evade taxes, you have to investigate the causes for this. These causes are often faulty tax laws.

The purpose of criminal law, on the other hand, is to keep people from doing certain things. The fact that some people break general criminal laws is not to be compared with the fact that some people evade taxes.
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Old 03-02-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Thats just the argument for those people who give a fuck about their responsibilities and will always try to evade standing straight for it, no matter how low the taxes are.

"Its not our fault to commit acts of crime! The state "forces" us to do so."
I refer to my previous post.
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Old 03-02-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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I refer to my previous post.
Well if its "faulty tax laws" that mostly lead to tax evasion I guess, correct tax laws would be those that only hit those who lack possibilities to evade them in large style. Those who can't afford accounts in Liechtenstein, those who do not act on an international basis, aka the lower and large parts of the middle class.

Lets give the wealthier people a free ticket, because otherwise one would create "faulty tax laws".

Is that what you mean?
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Old 03-03-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Well if its "faulty tax laws" that mostly lead to tax evasion I guess, correct tax laws would be those that only hit those who lack possibilities to evade them in large style. Those who can't afford accounts in Liechtenstein, those who do not act on an international basis, aka the lower and large parts of the middle class.

Lets give the wealthier people a free ticket, because otherwise one would create "faulty tax laws".

Is that what you mean?
I do not think you believe yourself that this is what I mean.

What I mean is that the tax laws should be easy, foreseeable, and based on decent and common moral grounds, so that the vast majority of people feel that they should pay all of their taxes.

You can never create a tax law that will make everyone pay their taxes. The wish to avoid taxes are, however, equally common among people of all differences in incomes. Tax evasions may be more elaborate if you earn a lot, but certainly not more common. Do not underestimate the low income earner's ingenuity in evading taxes - people are certainly not more stupid just because they happen to earn less money.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

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Originally Posted by DGG View Post
I do not think you believe yourself that this is what I mean.

What I mean is that the tax laws should be easy, foreseeable, and based on decent and common moral grounds, so that the vast majority of people feel that they should pay all of their taxes.
Those people who evade taxes illegally, normally have the help of professionals on tax issues, or are well educated themselves on this issue. So while reducing red tape as far as reasonable is not a bad thing in itself, its not the reason why they evade taxes.

I can't see as well, how our taxes are not based on "common moral grounds".

Quote:
You can never create a tax law that will make everyone pay their taxes. The wish to avoid taxes are, however, equally common among people of all differences in incomes. Tax evasions may be more elaborate if you earn a lot, but certainly not more common. Do not underestimate the low income earner's ingenuity in evading taxes - people are certainly not more stupid just because they happen to earn less money.
You can't make a criminal code either that eliminates theft and robbery entirely. That does not make however theft or robbery any less of a crime, nor does it make the criminal code necessarily faulty.

Regarding you other argument. Yes of course tax evasion is not limited to wealthy people, but the majority of people from the middle class, employees of many sorts dont have much chance to evade the taxes. Workers can evade it by committing black labour, thats true. But thats not quite what I would base my existence on, nor do I support it either.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Those people who evade taxes illegally, normally have the help of professionals on tax issues, or are well educated themselves on this issue. So while reducing red tape as far as reasonable is not a bad thing in itself, its not the reason why they evade taxes.
The less you earn on tax evasion, the less interesting it is to evade taxes. It is as simple as that.

Quote:
I can't see as well, how our taxes are not based on "common moral grounds".
"Common moral grounds" was just one of the things I stated as a basis for a good tax law. Even though most of the tax law may be based on common moral grounds, I know of examples from my home country where certain tax statutes have not been.

Quote:
You can't make a criminal code either that eliminates theft and robbery entirely. That does not make however theft or robbery any less of a crime, nor does it make the criminal code necessarily faulty...
You cannot compare tax law to criminal law in this way. These two parts of the law are fundamentally different from one another.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008
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Re: The Liechtenstein Affair

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGG View Post
The less you earn on tax evasion, the less interesting it is to evade taxes. It is as simple as that.
Considering the current trend of "greed is cool" and the fact that you are not far away of a 0 tax in some tax havens, I guess the unless you approach towards zero with your own tax, tax evasion will always be a major problem.

Quote:
"Common moral grounds" was just one of the things I stated as a basis for a good tax law. Even though most of the tax law may be based on common moral grounds, I know of examples from my home country where certain tax statutes have not been.
Maybe there are examples, but I think they are pretty the exemption then.
Of course we are talking here about a rather subjective term as well.

Quote:
You cannot compare tax law to criminal law in this way. These two parts of the law are fundamentally different from one another.
Maybe they are fundamentally different. But the argument works nonetheless. I reject the turning around of the committer/victim scheme, as well as the argument that when you can not eliminate the bad actions, give in to them. When it is about tax evasion as well as when it is about the criminal code.
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