Thank you. Likewise. I was teaching a class a couple years back. I stated that every American should travel to another country. My children have been abroad as have I, and we are not wealthy people. But they are world citizens and will never be satisfied to stay in their own back yards!

I have a friend who is coming to China this November. She sees where it has brought me and wants the same. I am glad she is going and wish I could go this year, but I just can't until 2009.

Maybe it's payback for the way winter and xy_god have been endlessly spamming this forum?

I prefer the supporters of Israel; when they invade a forum to promote their nationalistic crud they at least offer some semi-decent debate. If these characters are Chinese government operatives as another poster suggested China needs better representatives...

pardon??? Can you just explain it more clearly?

__________________

I am a Chinese and I am proud to be one

Another poster "stillalive" if I am not mistaken believes the recent influx of pro-China sycophants are government operatives looking to defend China which is quite possible...

AsiaMedia :: CHINA: China hires Net squad to sway opinion

If this happens to be the case on this forum; the people China are sending are doing their cause more harm than good; at least with a pro-Israel Zionist they can make their propaganda and lies seem believable.

It seems a good news for me, cause maybe someday I would receive my first salary for being a "net-agent".
However, it's not impossible.

It's just ok for you to believe what you believed in.

__________________

I am a Chinese and I am proud to be one

I think you are doing a very meaningful job, setting up bridges across america and other countries. Such exchanges of every kind are very important for people in different countries. The more such exchanges take place, the more understandings will be achieved, and less misunderstandings and biases will arise. Then we have really world citizens.

For historic reasons and cultural similarity, these exchanges between europe and america were, have been and are intensive. But such exchanges between West and East, say, China, have happended only in limited scopes. So many people both in West and in China don't have the real pictures about each other, as its result many misunderstandings occur. This thought is being confirmed constantly, when I read posters on this forum. But what at least seems give us big hope is that modern technologies of comminications make it possible for peoples in west and east to discuss together, to exchange opinoins and ideas together, like we are doing on this forum.

Now, that is called tolerance and wisdom.

__________________

I am a Chinese and I am proud to be one

Can anyone translate what this Chinese invasion force is posting? I have been reading many of their posts and most of these posts strike me as non-sensical rambling; am I alone on this observation?

Yep...

Old story.

But tell me, are you surfing in a free net ?

Clear answer : NO !!!

Google, the most widely used search engine, has turned from top value four years ago to an ad and spam monger.

They are censoring world wide. where one could use the US version to get to some themes before, this is now impossible.
Google will always kick you back to your own countryīs censored edition.

Never seen the:
"For legel reasons requested by your country some links can not be shown"

And US freedom ?
Only last week it was all over the news that the CIA boss demands of congress to pass a law controlling and censoring the whole net.
To catch the shrubs dearest friends, the "terrorists"

What system of control was envisaged ?
The chinese censoring setup.

So there.

__________________
A working manīs hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

Well, one of the reasons, Us citizens are not taken for serious very often is, that they always point to the candy wrapping on the neighbors front lawn while being unable to clear their own debris filled back yard.

Wanna get respected again ?

Easy :
While you stand up to the neck in the shit, donīt tell passers-by that they smell bad.

__________________
A working manīs hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

[quote=multi_pol;1210314]In my eye, it's not special. The chinese government just want to "protect" chinese people from bad influences of Internet, similar as the parent of a family use a child-protection software to protect their children from accessing harmful internet contents.

This metaphor explains the behaviour of the chinese government and its handling of ordinary chinese people.



In another thread you asked, what "something real bad" I had done in China to get monitored by police

Well. in 99 I had travelled to Shanghai with a client, a chinese who had only eight weeks before become a naturalized french citizen.

No more, no less.

In the meantime, as I travel to the same (12) destinations in China regularly, theyīve come to accept me and I have far less problems these days than I had until two years ago.

Perhaps they realized, that someone bringing trade and profit to China should not be treated as a "un-chinese".

Now to your post above:

China blocks any website which is not in line with government propaganda,
any site critical of China, any site explaining democracy.

Which leaves one question open:

HOW DO YOU GET TO THIS SITE ?????????????

Itīs not accessible from any internet cafe in China, nor from private computers there.

__________________
A working manīs hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

So where have you been to "

Beijing, shanghai, Guaongdong, perhaps on a boat tour down the Li "

You definitely have not been to the old parts of the cities, nor have you ever been to the rural areas where the poor peasants live.
You have seen western expensive cars, btw financed to the last yuan and more than likely repossessed after one year.

wealthy China ?
Take the bike rikshaīs.
A license costs 120 000 yuan. thatīs 12 000 E or nearly 15 000 $.
They chrge 2 to 3 yuan a ride, 15 30 US cent.
Work out for yourself, how long it takes to get the license money back if ever AND live from the earnings as well.

Favorite drink for the young is coffee . Slogan: "Iīm young, Iīm coffee"
Goes at $ 7.50 a cup
Tea is 20 cent a can, bould only old folk drink it.
If the young ever do they order fancy and highly expensive tea specialities.

Re:
Confucianism:
It is the first showing of pure capitalism.
Nothing to do with Bhuddism, which you probably meant to quote.

Re: Mao a villain.
Now come. anyone critisizing him to this day gets in trouble.
His picture still is plastered on the wall in every chinese farmers house, just to show, the guys are sticking to the party line. ( as I wrote before:
Capitalism and Communism are two ends of the same worm)

I invite you to come to China with me. I will show you, what you have not seen or have turned a blind eye to.

That is, if you are not chinese yourself !!
The way you write I have reason to assume you are chinese.

So please, stop pretending, all is well and get to work to MAKE IT WELL.

BTW your kind of writing reminds me of Lee-Lee. Doing penitance ?

__________________
A working manīs hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

It never did make any sense to suppose American corporations to be capable of changing a foreign culture in ways we would want, except accidentally. A corporation is not a public service institution nor an engine of diplomacy. It exists for one purpose and one purpose only: to generate profits. It will do whatever it must do in order to generate those profits and protect them, whether that is good for human progress or bad. And, because of the logic of competition, it is more often bad than good, to the extent that law and regulation allow.

Why? Because the logic of competition argues against having scruples unless those scruples are simultaneously imposed by law on all one's competitors as well. If your company refrains from taking a potentially profitable, but morally dubious, action, and your competitors do not, you lose.

We may generalize this as an axiom: business sinks to the level of depravity that the law allows. Not because businesspeople are inherently moral lepers, but because those who are will enjoy a competitive advantage over those who are not and ultimately drive them out of business.

If the law allowed corporations to hire private armies and attempt to assassinate their competitors' officers and slaughter their employees, it would be common practice, because those willing to do this would have an advantage over those who were not. It is not common practice, only because the law does not allow it, and so we are able to have people succeed in business who are not murderous scumbags.

Free trade with China is a bad idea. Partly this is because of the rejection of democracy, liberty, and other liberal values by the Chinese government. Even more importantly, it is because of the Chinese government's treatment of the Chinese working class, which results in a drain of capital from liberal democracies into China, drawing down real wages over most of the world and damaging the global economy. All of this, as far as I can tell, being part of an economic strategy on the part of China to accelerate its own development on its own terms. It may, perhaps, also be part of a geopolitical strategy, but I am less convinced of this.

The truth is that China needs trade with us more than we need trade with China. At present, the U.S. represents a larger market for the world's good than China does. As China develops, that may not always be so. But for now, it is possible to use China's desire for trade privileges to leverage concessions from China in several ways -- or, if China is stubborn about that, simply to do without Chinese trade.

The most important concession we should demand is the adoption of modern standards of workers' rights in China. (Ridiculous that a supposedly capitalist country should have to lecture a supposedly socialist one about that, but it's the case.) But there are others perhaps just as important. Among the concessions we should demand is an opening of the Chinese internet. Without that, it would be prohibitively difficult to monitor whether China was complying with purely economic demands, since something like on-site inspections would be humiliating for China and (with reason) unlikely to be agreed to -- but Internet contact with Chinese workers would serve probably better than that.

In any case, we should abandon our misplaced worship of markets and our belief that trade by itself will generate reform. Contrary to the misconceptions of free-market purists, capitalism and democracy not only do not require one another, they are actually incompatible. It is because America is a democracy that our economy is no longer purely capitalist. And China has shown that capitalism in all its oppressive ugliness is perfectly compatible with a police-state government.