You are such a weirdo, seriously.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I would expect the western governments to offer aid without tying it to neo-liberal economic and political reform. Not because i don't think these countries need reform, but because these policies have been a tremendous failure.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Horsecrap.

The US Navy was delivering aid and assistance to the victims while the UN was still trying to get their supplies out of the airport.

We've seen the UN in action (aka the UN inaction), and we decided to be part of the solution, not part of the UN clusterfuck.

I fully support that choice. Lives were saved because of it.

Matt

__________________

Translation: you are right Alex. I am using this crisis as an opportunity to make political points. I really have no intention of donating any money or doing anything to help the people of Myanmar.

It's OK Anderwl, you can admit you are full of crap. Go on, admit the truth, you'll feel better afterwards.

__________________
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

But this is something that we know is not true. In most tribal cultures food was abundant, predation was rare, and shelter was adequate. (yes, i agree that central heating is a benefit they lacked, amongst other comforts we now enjoy). But yet, they were/are content.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

More to the point, you have nothing of any intelligence to offer to the discussion so you pathetically try to personalize it. Such is the domain of the undereducated. I have nothing to prove to you Alex, my conscious is my own.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

You are still missing the point Matt. The UN was not included by the consortium, so they were left without access resources to the US and other rich nations. This was politically motivated.

Had the consortium decided to be part of the UN effort by offering their resources and expertise, instead of going around the UN for political reasons, it is entirely possible the aid would have been even more effective.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

You are the one that said you were giving money, not me. I think that is germane to the topic. We are, after all, discussing economic aid are we not?

__________________
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

If you read the OP we are not discussing individual aid, we are discussing aid in the form of loans - more specifically, the trend towards tying aid to economic and political reform even though it has failed in every case in the past. Even more to the point, there is a growing tendency to try to push these aid/loan packages through when people have been the victims of great tragedy and shock.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Yes, the consortium excluded the UN - apparently, they wanted to actually accomplish something. That's not the UN's forte....



When it finally got delivered, you mean? The UN lagged quite a bit behind the US in actually putting aid on the ground, IIRC.

Should we have waited for the UN to get their crap together, and screw the folks who needed immediate assistance? Or is the real issue here that the UN can't claim credit for what the US did?

Matt

__________________

You need to realize that people and governments (especially quasi-governments like the UN) always act in their own best interests. Altruism is a fallacy. It does not exist. Welcome to the real world.

__________________
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

I never said it did. I have argued that these specific policies have continuously failed, yet they are pursued out of self interest still.

It would be something else altogether if these policies had a record of success and were being pursued. That would be fine with me, for the most part. The problem is that these policies tend to push poor people even deeper into poverty, while the west continues to benefit from access to their resources, adn its sold to us as aid. This should be challenged.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Well, the problem in Burma is the generals that run the country are preventing any aid from arriving. Burmese people are going to starve to death because of the mental midgets that run the country. How is the US to blame for that? Personally, it angers me that innocent people are going to needlessly suffer but unless we (the UN?) are prepared to act militarily we are utterly powerless.

__________________
"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

The UN has had great success on many humanitarian fronts when its member states cooperate. But the UN is only as strong as its member states, and when its strongest member states seek to marginalize and exclude it, their is no doubt that it will have trouble.

On what basis do you believe that the UN, had it not been excluded, would have still been unable to accomplish its humanitarian goals?


The problem, and the point im trying to make, is that the UN and the consortium should not be working separately towards the same humanitarian goal. They should be working together. I see no reason for not coordinating these relief efforts.

What im against is this consortium using these situations as an opportunity to pursue economic and political polices out of their own self interest (especially since these policies have failed wherever they have been tried).

IMO, Its important that the UN be the ultimate coordinator of aid so as to separate the two issues, those being people who need aid and support immediately and post disaster, and the mostly unrelated issue of the economic and political reform of some of the countries involved.

Im against those issues being tied together as has been the case for the last decade and a half... it has failed.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Lest we forget, Andrew, the UN was knee-deep in the Congo scandal when the tsunami hit.

You remember, where UN peacekeepers under direct UN supervision were trading sex with children for food and other aid?

U.N. Faces More Accusations of Sexual Misconduct (washingtonpost.com)

It's easy to understand why the consortium might have wanted to forgo that kind of "aid" from the UN.

Matt

__________________