Im not blaming the US for that at all. I fully agree that the generals are to blame for the delay in aid, from the US and the rest of the world. It angers me as well.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Sure, that might have been part of the reason. Another reason for marginalizing the UN could have been to punish them for their refusal to sanction the Iraq war. So much politics involved.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Or, it could be that people needed that aid right away, and the UN wasn't capable of delivering it that fast, and the consortium chose to help people over glorifying the UN.

Certainly, it seems we've come up with several alternatives to the claim that the aid is just for exploitation purposes and that is why the UN was bypassed.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

I still see no reason not to believe that had the world worked together through the UN the aid would have been delivered just as effectively, if not more so.

The initial aid is not so much the issue though (and i have not really been calling that into question), the exploitation comes afterwards when the reconstruction begins. Although i do suspect that a UN-free aid consortium can lay the groundwork for these loans much easier without the UN in their way.

It will be very interesting to see how these generals stand up to the pressure from these institutions and from their own citizens who are in shock. It will be difficult for them, to say the least. Will they take the loans and sell out their poeple as they have done with Unocal and Chinese state oil/gas/pipeline companies? Will the Bolivarians from latin america offer them an alternative to neo-libreralism? Will China or India use this as an opportunity to assert their new power?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

oh for crying out loud......


andrew....life is NOT a conspiracy..... okay?

Who said anything about a conspiracy?? Im not sure why you would think such things as this require a conspiracy when the disdain the Bush admin felt for the UN was anything but conspiratorial. There was no attempt to hide it, and there is a documentary record detailing it.


Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Andrew, I have to wonder if you are indeed, living the life of your dreams when you present this kind of stuff.

Looooooong before 9/11/2001 and looooooong before GWB took office, a lot of the population in the USA saw the UNSC for what it is.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Sure. But we were talking about the time period immediately after the Tsunami, as far as i know, the Bush admin was the only admin in power in the US at that time, and they were open about their dislike of the UN.

Again, what is the need for a conspiracy here?

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Gee, I don't know since I didn't bring it up.
You tell the rest of us, K?

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

No need. Im satisfied with my original argument that western countries want to make aid conditional on neo-liberal political/economic reform, whereas the UN and the aid organizations under that umbrella are not interested in that. Hence the reason why they developed a consortium outside of the UN.

Neither the congo explanation that Matt offered, nor the explanation that they were punishing them for iraq is really all that satisfactory to me anyway.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Now I have whiplash. You brought up the conspiracy issue of GWB's "agenda" to "undermine" the UN because the UNSC did not fully support the war in Iraq. Now, that we are on track with my point (and others'), do you care to back that up with a relevant post?

[edit] My bad. You said "marinalize" rather than "undermine". [/edit]

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

It never was relevant to this thread. It was a response to Matt's introduction of an alternative theory, i.e., distrusting the UNs aid capabilities for the faulty peace-keeping mission in the Congo. I was merely bringing up even more possible explanations.

Would you like to discuss the topic of this thread or George Bush?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I'm not a fan of outrageous conspiracy theories which are spouted out in an emotional moment nor am I a fan of having a discussion with those who spin and backpeddle rather than just saying, "oops".

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

what conspiracy theory?

what did i backpeddle on.

I already said quite quite clearly that my own Bush punishes the UN for Iraq theory was not satisfactory to myself.

Your being a troll Si.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Meanwhile, the government of Myanmar is still preventing aid:

I really can't formulate the words. This is just so stunningly, amazingly depraved........

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum