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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
I noticed he referred to you as a "Nazi?" This will teach you not to think for yourself and disagree with Anobsitar.
Yeah, I am right there goose-stepping and 'Sieg Heil'-ing right next to Stapo apparently.
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
Frank Frank is offline
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Yeah, I am right there goose-stepping and 'Sieg Heil'-ing right next to Stapo apparently.
Do not forget that I am a "Nazi" as well according to "Anobsitar;" apparently in Anob's world anyone who disagrees with his views on pretty much anything automatically becomes a Nazi. It should strike you as no surprise that he throws that label around quite a bit...
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Just a note, I have not found any translation in German where Thor = fool. At least, not according to the University of Dresden of the University of Chemnitz. I have found variations of the German word 'Tor' that mean fool.

Search of the word 'fool'. See that there is no 'Thor'
The New English-German Dictionary

Search of the term 'Thor'. No results
The New English-German Dictionary

Another search for Thor. Notice nothing has been returned for 'Thor', but 'Tor' comes up as a similar result.
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/deutsch-englisch/Tor.html
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Just a note, I have not found any translation in German where Thor = fool. ...
Google this sentence: "Da steht er nun als wie ein Thor und ist so schlau als wie zuvor." You can use "Thor" or "Tor" - it's the same.
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
Google this sentence: "Da steht er nun als wie ein Thor und ist so schlau als wie zuvor." You can use "Thor" or "Tor" - it's the same.
I think we have a case where a word has fallen out of use, or has changed over the years. For example, the only place where I can find a translation like you mentioned was out of a dictionary from 1901. However, I have not found it in any modern dictionary.
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
I think we have a case where a word has fallen out of use, or has changed over the years. ...
Already Goethe (*1749 +1832) used it in this way.
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
... However, I have not found it in any modern dictionary.
I see - this means there's something wrong with the dictionaries you are using. I don't know anyone who thinks about Donar, Wodan or Thor - except some fans of fantasy stories or Nazis. Normally I would say that it is not so important - but once I had a problem with the expresisoin "Ostara" (Easter) and I had to take a look. Since this time I know for sure that the godess "Ostara" never existed. It is just a form of propagandism against Christians in the kind "Christian stole Easter" and a reason for some people to disturb relgious celebrations.

In later times I found out, that "Ostara" was also the name of a newpaper in 1905 from a man who called himsel "Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels" (his real name was 'Adolf Joseph Lanz'). There's is existing an article also in the enlgish Wikepedia - but I don't know how good it is (In the german Wikipedia there's a very good articlae). This dishonarable monk, traitorously priest and extremly stupid dreamer produced a lot of ideas the Nazis were using in a kind of German myth that never really existed.

It's nothing else than a kind of fantasy. Most Germans don't have really any idea about. Every year someone is telling something about some gods that hypothetically were existing since centuries - and in most cases it are nothing else than fantasy stories. No one in the USA for example would say "The Terminator" is a god - it's nothing else than a fantasie story. Normally everyone knows what's a dream, fiction, fantasy and what's reality.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Out of curiosity; is there someone on this forum who is not a "Nazi" or is "Nazi" merely the label you attach to anybody who dares to disagree with anything you have to say?
Nazis are always coming like a pack of hounds, because alone they are nothing else than babbling, jittering cowards. Specially I hate it, that some idiots seem to think every idiotic fantasy has something to do with Germany. Seems even "Stapo" is not a German. Some people here are misusing the german history. What's the sense of it? Anyhow: Everyone can ask everything to every nation in the world and he will get the answer he likes to get.
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Last edited by anobsitar; 06-04-2008 at 11:17 PM.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

this is ridiculous, could you please return to the topic?
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
Someone with teh User anme "stapo" a s a short form of Gestapo is inacceptable for every german.
Since when is Stapo the "short" form of Gestapo???

Your assumptions about fellow forum users are just ridiculous.

Is it your discussion "tactic", instead of answering questions to simple call everyone else to be a Nazi???
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarstad View Post
Why would you have a special responsibility? Guilt? Why would you feel guilty?

There are still survivors of the holocaust, but when every single one of them is dead, and ever single person who supported the nazis in WW2 is dead, then what? Does the next generation of people who happen to be born in a certain place inherit their responsibilities and even "sins"?
Yeah - thats pretty much how it works. Just look at the US and slavery. There hasnt been anyone living for a VERY long time who either owned slaves or was a slave, and yet there are those who still expect the country to cater to blacks as an apology for slavery.
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
I see - this means there's something wrong with the dictionaries you are using.
Or it has, indeed, fallen out of use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
I don't know anyone who thinks about Donar, Wodan or Thor - except some fans of fantasy stories or Nazis.
First, Donar = Thor. That being said, there is quite an active study of these Gods and the religion that surrounded them by archeologists, historians, and anthropologists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anobsitar View Post
Normally I would say that it is not so important - but once I had a problem with the expresisoin "Ostara" (Easter) and I had to take a look. Since this time I know for sure that the godess "Ostara" never existed. It is just a form of propagandism against Christians in the kind "Christian stole Easter" and a reason for some people to disturb relgious celebrations.

In later times I found out, that "Ostara" was also the name of a newpaper in 1905 from a man who called himsel "Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels" (his real name was 'Adolf Joseph Lanz'). There's is existing an article also in the enlgish Wikepedia - but I don't know how good it is (In the german Wikipedia there's a very good articlae). This dishonarable monk, traitorously priest and extremly stupid dreamer produced a lot of ideas the Nazis were using in a kind of German myth that never really existed.

It's nothing else than a kind of fantasy. Most Germans don't have really any idea about. Every year someone is telling something about some gods that hypothetically were existing since centuries - and in most cases it are nothing else than fantasy stories. No one in the USA for example would say "The Terminator" is a god - it's nothing else than a fantasie story. Normally everyone knows what's a dream, fiction, fantasy and what's reality.
For the record, I think Wiccans simply use the modern festival as an excuse to get together and get drunk. And any who disturb Christian celebrations are just simply people who didn't get enough attention as kids. I, like you, loathe them.

However, the first person to speculate about a connection between a goddess and Easter was Jacob Grimm in Deutsche Mythologie. He primarily cites the works of Bede's De temporum ratione, in which there is mention of a Anglo-Saxon (and, by extention, Germanic) goddess Eostre. To quote Grimm:

This Ostarâ, like the AS Eástre, must in the heathen religion have denoted a higher being, whose worship was so firmly rooted, that the Christian teachers tolerated the name, and applied it to one of their own grandest anniversaries.

Anyways, the fact of the matter remains that there were indeed pagan festivals that occured at the same time as the Christian holiday of Easter. Furthermore, there is speculation that these festivals revolved around the Goddess Eostre. And the fact remains that there was indeed a very real, and deep rooted religion in Germany (and the Germanic world as a whole), along with its rituals, festivals, and other rites, before the arrival of Christianity. The deny this, and write it off as pure fantasy, is the height of ignorance. A willfull ignorance at that.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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ThorHammer ThorHammer is offline
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanon View Post
this is ridiculous, could you please return to the topic?
you are right. I, for one, apologize for letting anobsitar bait me off topic.
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

As a newcomer to this conversation I will try to bring it back.

Personally, I don't feel that people in modern Germany should feel any responsibility for the holocaust with the exception of those few remaining that were alive and enabled it to happen. The current generations had nothing to do with that atrocity and as such should feel no responsibility for it.
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  #195 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2008
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Re: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammer View Post
Just a note, I have not found any translation in German where Thor = fool. At least, not according to the University of Dresden of the University of Chemnitz. I have found variations of the German word 'Tor' that mean fool.

Search of the word 'fool'. See that there is no 'Thor'
The New English-German Dictionary

Search of the term 'Thor'. No results
The New English-German Dictionary

Another search for Thor. Notice nothing has been returned for 'Thor', but 'Tor' comes up as a similar result.
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/deutsch-englisch/Tor.html
Check here:
dict.cc Wörterbuch :: fool :: Englisch-Deutsch-Übersetzung

Thor with H is the more old fashioned writing... but the term is old fashioned anyway. People would rather say "Narr".
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