Yeah I know.
:=))

Sad fact is, they belonged to the roman empire for just about 160 years in all, 1800 years ago.
Genetically they are mainly Turk and Ugar, tribes that came from the Aral aerea and was mixed with Hun.
The occasional sexual encounters of roman soldiers didn´t make much of a dent there. (pun intended)

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If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

Niederbayern, the northeastern part of Bavaria is neighboring Czechia.
Bavarans often go shopping in Czechia, it´s a lot cheaper there than in Germany.
Though most stuff you get there are cheap and crappy chinese imitations of western goods ( You even get fake Marlboro there) and they are being sold mainly by vietnamease people stranded in Czechia after glasnost.

There´s no real need for a German to learn czech as most Czechs are quite fluent in the german language.
Unless of course one is trying to avoid getting cheated.
But then, vietnamese would be a better choice in the markets.

__________________
A working man´s hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero then just follow me.

J.Lennon

Sad fact? What a nonsense. Germans and Romans used the same graveyards for example. People are not sharing graveyards with their enemies. It was a very good relationship between Germans and Romans in this days.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Genetically (in a serios scientific research for medicaments) the genetic profile of lots of Germans is very similiar with the profile of the people in the middle of Italy. So: I don't know where your ideas are coming from.

It's very clear where different german (celtic) tribes came from. Only Bavarians where a long time a secret, because no one found their ancestors. (There's a myth we were blind passengers in the arch of Noah, which landed on the mountain Arrarat (in Turkey)) But in the end the answer was so easy one cannot believe that no one found it immediately. Bavarians came (nearly) from the place where they are.

But anyway all ancestors of all (wo)men are coming from Africa. Under the skin we are all Africans. For example: I'm blond and blueeyed - this means some of my ancestors came from the North of Europe/Asia. One of my grandfathers was a Jew, what means nothing in genetics except that he was a European in this case. Jews can also be negroes for example. Perhaps if someone is testing me for medical reasons he will find also that I have some ancestors in Italy.

In one case for example I heard of a white american (european ancestors) who was able to save the life of a japanese man because of the histocompatibility of both was higher than between other american-american or japanese-japanese people.

Genetcis is completly uninteresting if you are speaking about cultures. A german for example became a red indian in the fifties/sixties. He dreamed his whole life (since he was a four year old child) from this idea and as he was grown up he did it: he became a kind of shaman - better perhaps to say a druid or a special kind of bard - and he did a lot to save the culture of a red indian tribe in a time where nearly everyone in the world was full or disrespect about - even lots of red indians themselves. Later in the 60s lots of indians looked again for their roots - and there was a white man in the middle of the old chiefs. Some tried to take him the right to be a red indian - but the chiefs said that he is a better red indian than other red indians are. A very interesting man. And he's only one of so many interesting people all over the world. Except for medicine genetics is really good for nothing. Oh - by the way: he married and he had a very thick red indian wife and some red indian children.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

The days leading up to Israel’s 6-day war were met with Arab forces amassing ground troops and tanks along their respective borders with Israel. On June 4, 1967, the day before the start of the Six-Day War, Israel asked if the United States had any ships in their region. The U.S. said it did not, and sent a Jewish United States Ambassador, Goldberg to announce in the United Nations that the U.S. had no ships within 350 - 400 miles of the region.

Early in the hours of June 5, 1967, the Israeli Air Force launched a preemptive strike against the airfields of Egypt which had the most advanced aircraft out of the attacking Arab forces. They flew below Egyptian radar detection and wiped out over 300 Egyptian aircraft and 100 Egyptian pilots. They repeated similar attacks in Syria and Jordan later in the same day.

During the attacks the Arab forces that were now scrambling to regroup changing their offensive posture to desperation resulted in their break of protocol and radioing a US naval spy ship for assistance. When Israel intercepted the communication they ultimately found that the previous statement by US Ambassador Goldberg was not only false but was intended to misdirect Israel and the world to the role that the US was playing in the affair.

On June 8, 1967, the Israeli Air Force comprised of two Mirage IIIs, firing cannon and rockets, followed by two Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm began attacking the United States' Navy's most advanced spy ship, the USS LIBERTY. Approximately 20 minutes later 3 Israeli torpedo ships arrived with gun fire and five torpedoes.

The incident was dismissed by both Israel and the United States Congress as an “accident” but In November of that same year (1967) the US Navy Submitted plans for the construction of a Swastika shaped Naval Barracks on Coronado Island in San Diego CA.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...onado-plan.jpg

http://www.just3ants.com/MilitaryMes...a_building.jpg

Adam L Tucker
just3ants.com

And what do you like to say?

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

And vice versa; Russians killed and raped many Germans during WWII, but I never saw any Russian apologies for that either

To topic: People who were born after the war, holds no responsibility whatsoever, it would be the same stupidity to blame English today for their crimes against the Boers during the Boerwars, or against the Scots, Irish, colonial peoples.

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I believe there is no lack of understanding regarding WWII casualties between Germany and Russia. At least, I can often hear on TV that some people are looking after Russian cemeteries where German soldiers slumber, that well-known persons are placing wreaths on graves there (something similar happens in Germany).

27 million of Soviet citizens (mostly civilians) were killed during WWII. Some of them were tortured, raped or burnt alive (Khatyn is one of many examples). The country was ruined. I'd have been surprised if Soviets had felt any sympathy to Germans and their allies after that... Those reported outrages (sometimes even rapes) may not be justified but some soldiers, especially those who lost their families, were in a frenzy. It were not they who started the war.

JFYI, there was no Russia in 1939-1945 and there was nothing Russian unless you mean Russian ethnicity (which is not something that can be easily told by Russians themselves let alone others).

Certainly a sad, and tragic part of history to be sure. The war in the east saw some of the most brutal fighting ever in the history of the world. Still, the fact the vast majority of those civilian casualties had to do from massive food shortages that resulted from the fighting.

However, those deaths certainly did not in anyway justify (as you mentioned) the criminal behavoir of the Red Army as it entered German territory.

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Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.

Agreed. I'm still sure our life is better without any apologies on the subject and like.

I've been to Germany a couple of times and I liked it very much. The people were nice and friendly there. They had not been expecting that I'd apologize for killing their soldiers, raping their women, etc.

On the other hand there're Baltic states which officially demand that Russia should apologize for occupying them - it heats the conflicts between the "aryan" latvians/estonians and the "occupiers" russians/belarusians/ukrainians/jews/etc.

I visited Estonia (the cities of Tallinn and Parnu) in 1991 or 1992. And when I spoke to a passer-by in Russian (I would have spoken Estonian to him if I had learned it before, indeed), he looked at me angrily and told me that he wouldn't talk to an occupier. This was really ridiculous. An occupier? Me?! I was about 10 years old those days. As far as I know it is no noticably better there nowadays.

My opinion is this kind of feeling insulted and endless expectations of apologies will lead them to nowhere. This will definitely stop me from ever travelling to Estonia.

In 1989 the Supreme Council (the parliament in terms of British political science) of USSR stated that Molotov-Ribbentrop secret protocol had led to a severe violation of rights of Baltic states peoples. Russia was the first power that recognized independence of the Baltic states and the one that prevented a full-scale invasion of the Soviet military therein. There's nothing left to add here or to apologize for.

They never did.

True and agree!

We live in 2008, come on, I would say, for how long does Israel aka the Jewish lobby expect financial compesation from Germany and continue their emotional pressure.

Germany lost the best of their sons in the war, millions were replaced, murdered, raped, put into labourcamps in the Gulag, massacres like Dresden, Hamburg, Nemmersdorf, the Wilhelm Gustloff, yet, does Germany or Germans are whinning about that? No! Only Israel does,

Move on!

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The worst maritime disaster in history happened to that ship.

And they deserved it after what they have done to Russia. There was no way to tell from submarine how many weapons, soldiers and civilians were transported by that ship.

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Refugees, civilians, deserved death? You cannot be serious.

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Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy's.