Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Stapo · #1 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Read this interesting article in "Der Spiegel"

New Survey Undermines Official Policy: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Quote:

A new survey reveals that most Germans feel their country has no special responsibility for Israel, despite Germany's official foreign policy of support for Israel. And only 13 percent of Germans are in favor of providing military support to Israel if the country came under attack.

AP
German Chancellor Angela Merkel meets with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in the Chancellery in Berlin in this Feb. 2008 file photo. A new poll reveals that most Germans feel no historical responsibility toward Israel.
Israel is celebrating its 60th anniversary this Thursday, an event which will be marked with particular attention in Germany. Six decades after the Holocaust, Germany is very aware of its historical obligations to the Jewish state, and the country's right to exist is a cornerstone of German foreign policy.

However, a new survey reveals that ordinary Germans are far more ambivalent in their attitudes towards the country. According to the poll, which was published Saturday, 53 percent of people questioned responded in the negative when asked if Germany had a "special responsibility" towards Israel because of its history. Only 40 percent said the country did have a special responsibility.

Younger Germans in particular felt less responsibility toward Israel, with only 29 percent of those aged between 30 and 39 responding in the positive to the question. A massive 65 percent of respondents in that age group said Germany had no special responsibility to Israel. However, 48 percent of the over-60s said that Germany did have a special obligation.

When asked if Germany should support Israel politically in the event of the country being attacked, 58 percent responded yes, with 33 percent saying no. A total of 35 percent supported financial support for Israel in the event of an attack, while 57 percent were against it.

A vast majority rejected military support for Israel should the Jewish state come under attack. Only 13 percent of respondents said they were in favor of supporting Israel with weapons if it were attacked. Asked if Germany should send soldiers if Israel was attacked, again only 13 percent said yes, with the overwhelming majority -- 81 percent -- responding in the negative.

The attitudes revealed in the survey contrast with German government doctrine that the country has a special responsibility to the state of Israel. That official stance was recently reaffirmed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel who told Israel's parliament (more...), the Knesset, that Germany would "never abandon Israel, but instead will remain a loyal partner and friend."

A total of 1,230 Germans over the age of 18 were surveyed for the poll, which was conducted on behalf of the television station ZDF to tie in with Israel's 60th anniversary.

dgs/ap/dpa

I found it interesting to see, that my own position towards Israel is largely in line with the majority of younger Germans.

Do others believe that Germany (or their own country) has a "special responsibility" for Israel?

Aarstad · #2 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Why would you have a special responsibility? Guilt? Why would you feel guilty?

There are still survivors of the holocaust, but when every single one of them is dead, and ever single person who supported the nazis in WW2 is dead, then what? Does the next generation of people who happen to be born in a certain place inherit their responsibilities and even "sins"?

xy_god · #3 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Germany and Jew?
I wish you would be together peacefully!

xy_god · #4 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Germany ever killed many many Jew, so they apologized to Israel again and again!
Germany ever killed many many Russian, but I never saw their apology to Russia!

Donkey_Left · #5 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

I don't see why Germany should feel a special responsibility to Israel.

Especially since Jewish immigration to Palestine started decades before the holocaust.

anobsitar · #6 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stapo

Read this interesting article in "Der Spiegel"

New Survey Undermines Official Policy: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

I found it interesting to see, that my own position towards Israel is largely in line with the majority of younger Germans.

Do others believe that Germany (or their own country) has a "special responsibility" for Israel?

The whole article is nothing else than an antisemitic propaganda. Most Germans don't feel comfortable to be Germans - that's the whole background of such a bullshit. This left kind of antisemitism is an open secret for everyone who is living in Germany.

If Israelis hear Germans discussing about that Germans don't like to defend Israel with weapons - I think they just will be happy about and laugh like crazy, because Jews anyhow don't like to be defended from Germans as in the years 1933-1945 they were defended from Germans. But perhaps only 10-20% of all Germans would defend their own country Germany with weapons.

anobsitar · #7 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarstad

Why would you have a special responsibility? Guilt? Why would you feel guilty? ...

For example it was not a good idea from Germany to attack Denmark and Norway starting in 04/9/1940. I don't feel comfortable about, because it's really not a good behavior to attack neighbors - Denmark and Norway had no real chance. That was not honorful and against all contracts with Norway and Denmark - a crime, nothing else. I feel sorry about - and I would like that all people in Denmark and Norway know this.
I'm not guilty, I have nothing to do with this story and a big part of my family was killed from Hitler. But because I'm a German I feel it is important for the people in Norway, Denmark and also in Germany to know this.

anobsitar · #8 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarstad

... There are still survivors of the holocaust, but when every single one of them is dead, and ever single person who supported the nazis in WW2 is dead, then what? Does the next generation of people who happen to be born in a certain place inherit their responsibilities and even "sins"?

Let me say it in simple words: Every man and woman on this planet is an answer to everything what happend since this universe exists. If there is a laughter you would miss if you would know that this laughter would exist - and you don't hear it now because it is not existing and it is not part of your answer to this world - you don't know, what you are missing but maybe you are feeling a little sad.

There is no way back - this cut is done - and every human being has to live with now. To forget means nothing else than to learn again this stupid story of the years 1933-1945. But everyone who knows about this stories never likes to learn again the same. All Germans are an answer of this times today, if they like it or not. So the best is it to accept this answer and to remember this time always very well.

Stapo · #9 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by anobsitar

because Jews anyhow don't like to be defended from Germans as in the years 1933-1945 they were defended from Germans..

Your statement doesn't make much sense or maybe it's due your (a lack of) lanuage skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anobsitar

But perhaps only 10-20% of all Germans would defend their own country Germany with weapons.

Well only because you wouldn't want to defend Germany, doesn't mean that the rest of us (62% men/ 34 % Women) wouldn't do so!

mabus · #10 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Looks like the germans are the only people who care about the germans not feeling a special responsibility for Israel anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XY_god

Germany ever killed many many Russian, but I never saw their apology to Russia!

Now, I will show you a picture which was forbidden in the soviet block, especially in Poland, for many, many years:

We apologized our ass off. We apologized to everyone for everything so often that I bet in 1970, in Moscow there wasn't a single parking meter left to which the chancellor hadn't personally apologized yet.

xy_god · #11 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabus

Looks like the germans are the only people who care about the germans not feeling a special responsibility for Israel anymore.

I will show you now a picture which was forbidden in the soviet block, especially in Poland, for many, many years:

We apologized our ass off. We apologized to everyone for everything so often that I bet that in 1970, in Moscow there wasn't a single parking meter left to which the chancellor hadn't personally apologized yet.

It's my mistake!
I have to apologize to you and to all Germans!
I have seen this picture for many times!
But I didn't remember it when I wrote that reply!
I know German does very well in this side, especially when Chinese faces Japan!
We Chinese respect braveness of German for this!
Best wishes to German people!(From my heart)
But I am not very sure that soviet forbided this picture, can you show me some proofs?

mudwhistle · #12 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stapo

Read this interesting article in "Der Spiegel"

New Survey Undermines Official Policy: Most Germans Feel no Responsibility for Israel - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

I found it interesting to see, that my own position towards Israel is largely in line with the majority of younger Germans.

Do others believe that Germany (or their own country) has a "special responsibility" for Israel?

Are you talking about responsibility for Israel being formed or for the Holocaust?

I don't think the Germans of today need to apologize for something the Germans of yesterday did. Much like I feel I have no reason to apologize for something other people in America were responsible for. Just because I have White blood...it doesn't mean I was automatically responsible for slavery and the same can be said for Germans who were never members of the Nazi Party or didn't even know that Jews were being killed, or even if they knew it was happening couldn't do a thing to stop it.

Besides, the people that suffered are the only ones who should have received any form of apology in the first place and the time for apologies is long past.

Stapo · #13 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

Are you talking about responsibility for Israel being formed or for the Holocaust?.

Maybe it's my mistake, but I haven't had the intention to start a discussion about neither of the two possible topics you asked me about.

Well I tried to "follow" the topic of the survey, so the question is more about:

Does Germans have a "special responsibility" (to take care) for the security of the state of Israel?

iamwhatiseem · #14 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

This kind of thing would never end...next would be the Irish, what about all of the small countries ravaged by Russia after WWII?
Answer - no, Germany owes Israel nothing.

mudwhistle · #15 (**permalink**) 3 Days Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stapo

Maybe it's my mistake, but I haven't had the intention to start a discussion about neither of the two possible topics you asked me about.

Well I tried to "follow" the topic of the survey, so the question is more about:

Does Germans have a "special responsibility" (to take care) for the security of the state of Israel?

Why should they?

Only Israel should be responsible for that. If a country can't stand on it's own two feet then it runs the risk of not being a country.

That is the argument everyone has about Iraq. However many forget that Israel or any country for that matter, the US included, had periods of weakness during the formation of their nation.

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