Russia and China an example of successful and peaceful diplomacy - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

laca · #1 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008

Why America is not so successful in diplomacy with the rest of the world like China and Russia?. If I was an American I would feel shame because of Bush’s barbaric militant policy. I hope Obama will shortly change everything on better.

Medvedev and China Relations - Forums of Pravda.Ru

mudwhistle · #2 (**permalink**) 05-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by laca

Why America is not so successful in diplomacy with the rest of the world like China and Russia?. If I was an American I would feel shame because of Bush’s barbaric militant policy. I hope Obama will shortly change everything on better.

Medvedev and China Relations - Forums of Pravda.Ru

They are successful because they know that money talks....

The Russians are experts in under the table deals. They really don't care if they're doing something that is illegal......the ends justify the means.

They don't practice diplomacy. They practice bribery.

They go to rouge despotic leaders....offer them cash, weapons, and support and basically skirt international laws.

The Russians helped Saddam remove his WMDs and hide them in Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.

Quote:

"The short answer to the question of where the WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went to Syria and Lebanon," former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw told an audience Saturday at a privately sponsored "Intelligence Summit" in Alexandria, Va. (Intelligence Summit).

"They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence," he said.

Shaw has dealt with weapons-related issues and export controls as a U.S. government official for 30 years, and was serving as deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security when the events he described today occurred.

He called the evacuation of Saddam's WMD stockpiles "a well-orchestrated campaign using two neighboring client states with which the Russian leadership had a long time security relationship."

Ex-Official: Russia Moved Saddam's WMD

With the help of the Clintons China has been meddling in our government, obtaining technology, and influencing decisions in the Oval Office.

Quote:

TEXT: THERE HAD BEEN RUMORS OF ILLEGAL CHINESE GOVERNMENT
CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CLINTON-GORE RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN FOR
MONTHS, IF NOT LONGER, BUT NO PROOF. AT THE BEGINNING OF LAST
YEAR'S SENATE HEARINGS INTO CAMPAIGN FINANCE WRONG-DOING,
CHAIRMAN FRED THOMPSON CLAIMED THERE WAS A CHINESE CONNECTION,
BUT THE HEARINGS NEVER PRODUCED SPECIFICS.

THEN LAST WEEK, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED THAT FORMER
COMMERCE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, AND KEY CLINTON FUND-RAISER, JOHNNY
CHUNG HAD ADMITTED TO JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INVESTIGATORS, PASSING
ON A 100-THOUSAND DOLLAR CONTRIBUTION FROM A CHINESE MILITARY
AEROSPACE AND INTELLIGENCE OFFICER TO THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.

IT WAS POINTED OUT THAT OTHER, EVEN LARGER DONATIONS, CAME FROM
TWO AMERICAN FIRMS LAUNCHING PRIVATE, COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITES
ON CHINESE ROCKETS. THE PRESIDENT GAVE PERMISSION FOR THOSE
LAUNCHES. LATER, THE FIRMS, LORAL SPACE AND COMMUNICATIONS AND
HUGHES ELECTRONICS, GAVE THE CHINESE SECRET U-S INFORMATION TO
HELP WITH THEIR ROCKET GUIDANCE AFTER ONE OF THE CHINESE "LONG
MARCH" ROCKETS CRASHED, DESTROYING THE HUGHES SATELLITE ABOARD.
EARLIER THIS YEAR, PRESIDENT CLINTON APPROVED THAT TECHNOLOGY
TRANSFER ALSO, DESPITE A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION BY THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT OF LORAL FOR MAKING IT.

WITHIN THE PAST FEW WEEKS IT WAS REVEALED THAT CHINA HAS
REPOSITIONED MORE THAN A DOZEN INTERCONTINENTAL BALLISTIC
MISSILES TOWARD U-S TARGETS, AND SOME CONGRESSMEN BELIEVE THE
COMMERCIAL SATELLITE GUIDANCE INFORMATION AIDED THE CHINESE IN
IMPROVING THEIR MILITARY MISSILES.CLINTON'S CHINA CONNECTION CONTROVERSY EXPANDS

Quote:

The 1996 United States campaign finance controversy was an alleged effort by the People's Republic of China to influence domestic American politics during the 1996 federal elections.

The issue first received public attention in early 1997, with news that a Justice Department investigation had uncovered evidence that agents of China sought to direct contributions to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) in violation of U.S. laws regarding foreign political contributions.[1] While the Chinese government denied all accusations, twenty-two people were eventually convicted for fraud or for funneling Asian funds into the United States elections.

1996 United States campaign finance controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Clintons have been taking cash bribes from Chinese operatives like Norman Hsu.

Quote:

Hsu Cast Wide Net For Clinton Donors
List Included Strangers, His Own Investors

By John Solomon and Matthew Mosk
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 16, 2007; Page A01

To raise $850,000 for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign in just eight months, Norman Hsu tapped an eclectic group of donors that included wealthy investors in his apparel ventures, hotel shopkeepers, a 96-year-old in a Florida retirement home and an auto-body worker who mistakenly thought he would get a tax break for his political generosity.

The Clinton campaign has not yet released any information about the 260 donors whose contributions it is now refunding because they were credited to the prodigious fundraising of the former fugitive, but a detailed analysis of donors Hsu brought to Clinton shows that he tapped many Asian American donors in California and New York, including complete strangers as well as his relatives. He also raised political funds from people who had already invested large sums in his private business ventures.

As a fundraising bundler for Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign, Norman Hsu collected donations from others. Some of the donors whose checks were credited under Hsu's name said they had never met him. (By Paul Sakuma -- Associated Press)

Some donors among the nearly 100 identified this week said they never met Hsu and did not know that their donations had been credited to his fundraising. Others had trouble explaining why they gave the funds to Clinton or could not recall the circumstances in which they met Hsu.

"He called me and asked me if I'd give $1,000. . . . I don't know how you'd say we struck up a relationship. I just knew him," said Henry Rosenberg, a New York City lawyer. Asked if he wanted Clinton, New York's junior senator, to be the next president, Rosenberg said: "I don't know. He just asked me to do it, and I did."

Hsu Cast Wide Net For Clinton Donors - washingtonpost.com

Yes, the Russians and Chinese are experts at this new form of diplomacy....which is really just the age old technic of greasing palms and insider under the table deals. Criminality is the rule not the exception.

In Russia they have a saying:

Quote:

"The government pretends to pay us and we pretend to work."

There is a great deal of pretending going on in Communist countries.

The Trail - washingtonpost.com

Hsu Cast Wide Net For Clinton Donors - washingtonpost.com
FOXNews.com - Norman Hsu Booked, Hillary Rodham Clinton Hints Donors May Give Again - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hti.../20071111.aspx

MilleVanille · #3 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

The Russians are experts in under the table deals. They really don't care if they're doing something that is illegal......the ends justify the means.

They don't practice diplomacy. They practice bribery.

They go to rouge despotic leaders....offer them cash, weapons, and support and basically skirt international laws.

Omg... You should be nominated on "The biggest quantity of propaganda and biased unproved statements per post" nomination.

cojstvo3 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

They really don't care if they're doing something that is illegal......the ends justify the means.

What do you mean by illegal. Probably attacking sovereign nations in ILIGAL WARS like Iraq and Yugoslavia.

mudwhistle · #5 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by cojstvo3

What do you mean by illegal. Probably attacking sovereign nations in ILIGAL WARS like Iraq and Yugoslavia.

Illegal meaning selling weapons and technology to countries like Iraq and Iran that are being punished under UN sanctions.

Also working under the table deals for cheap oil in Iraq. Remember the Oil-For-Food program? It was one of the primary reasons for the Iraq War.

Quote:

Operation of the scheme
The scheme is alleged to have worked thusly: individuals and organizations sympathetic to the Iraqi regime, or those just easily bribed, were offered oil contracts through the Oil-for-Food Programme. These contracts for Iraqi oil could then be sold on the open world market and the seller was allowed to keep a transaction fee, said to be between $0.15 and $0.50/barrel (0.94 and 3.14 $/m³) of oil sold. The seller was then to refund the Iraqi government a certain percentage of the commission.

Contracts to sell Iraq humanitarian goods through the Oil-for-Food Programme were given to companies and individuals based on their willingness to kick back a certain percentage of the contract profits to the Iraqi regime. Companies that sold commodities via the Oil-for-Food Programme were overcharging by up to 10%, with part of the overcharged amount being diverted into private bank accounts for Saddam Hussein and other regime officials and the other part being kept by the supplier.

The involvement of the UN itself in the scandal began in February 2004 after the name of Benon Sevan, executive director of the Oil-for-Food Programme, appeared on the Iraqi Oil Ministry's documents. Sevan allegedly was given vouchers for at least 11,000,000 barrels (1,700,000 m³) of oil, worth some $3.5 million. Sevan has denied the charges.

Investigate the United Nations Oil-for-Food Fraud

Oil-for-Food Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Imperator · #6 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by laca

Why America is not so successful in diplomacy with the rest of the world like China and Russia?. If I was an American I would feel shame because of Bush’s barbaric militant policy. I hope Obama will shortly change everything on better.

Medvedev and China Relations - Forums of Pravda.Ru

I see so china and Russia fell into each others arms and that of course means our relationships are non existent.whatever floats your boat.

Of course chinas relationship with say oh, Sudan is just wonderful!!!

ahh yes pravda...please huh.

Imperator · #7 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by cojstvo3

What do you mean by illegal. Probably attacking sovereign nations in ILIGAL WARS like Iraq and Yugoslavia.

yea the balkans, how dare us get in the way of a good bloodletting my my, we are bad boys.

MilleVanille · #8 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

The only criminal nation nowadays is the USA.

Kash · #9 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

When I read the title, I was getting ready to read a joke in this thread. Wasn't a joke, but sure was funny!!

oleg · #10 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

Also working under the table deals for cheap oil in Iraq. Remember the Oil-For-Food program? It was one of the primary reasons for the Iraq War.

What, some groundless enough (let's be diplomatic and not say as it is - pulled out of State Department's arse childish fakes, exactly like the rest of'em regarding WMD and other lies) chiken few million dollars cheateries of some "individuals and organizations sympathetic to the Iraqi regime" (not governments, let's mark it) were the reason to invade and kill hundreds of thousands Iraqis and rob their natural resources and national treasures?
Funny, the Oil-for-Food was lame and immoral, now it's greatly upgraded to Death-for-Oil - the great improvement. Well, that's seemingly the only thing to become such cynical hypocrites what's left to Americans in this situation. It's their turn now to learn, how the reputation and longterm achievements of the whole country is easily being sold and thrown in the wind by the own elites.

xy_god · #11 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Russian is great, Chinese is great!
We will be together!
But USA,they don't know how important peace and friendship are!
Russian and Chinese need and want a peaceful world!
But American people need oil and $, so , only war can satisfy them!

xy_god · #12 (**permalink**) 05-26-2008

Westerners feel some lost now!
Nothing can hold back great friendship between Russian and Chinese!

Kash · #13 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by xy_god

But American people need oil and $, so , only war can satisfy them!

And other countries run on rainbows and smiles?

xy_god · #14 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kash

And other countries run on rainbows and smiles?

Not all, but totoally true!
In China, not everybody is using car, or other machine expending oil!
And Chinese and Russian never bring war to world!

mudwhistle · #15 (**permalink**) 05-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by xy_god

Not all, but totoally true!
In China, not everybody is using car, or other machine expending oil!
And Chinese and Russian never bring war to world!

You forget the USSR invasion of Afghanistan in the 78' or many of the other countries they have invaded:

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
::Cold War chronology::

Also China isn't innocent ether:

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
NDPT National Democratic Party of Tibet
Invasion and illegal annexation of Tibet: 1949-1951
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hti.../20080107.aspx
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hti.../20071111.aspx

Both China and Russia sell terrorists the weapons they have been using against western powers. That is why the weapons of choice for terrorists are AK-47 and the RPG.

China-Iran-Russia axis - SourceWatch
Russia: Putin Pushes Greater Arms Exports - RADIO FREE EUROPE / RADIO LIBERTY
CIA Warns of Russia, China, Iran

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