No no please, enlighten me with the same standard measurement that Americans and Venezuelans all use to define and dictate their national security policies.

Or alternatively you could use a bigger shovel and dig even more...

What?

They both infringe unacceptably (by my standards) on civil liberties.

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Nothing to see here.

You're right, but the fact of the matter is that up until the emergence of groups like Podemos, the traditional opposition have been utter idiots and continually allowed Chavez to bait them into extreme measures. In essence, they've been the gift that keeps on giving.

Yes, you see, its "your" standards...

Isn't that the way of humanity. We love things that seem to be to our advantage but hate those things which oppose our ideas. It makes sense to me.

Sutanek

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When SHTF - A Modern Day Survival Forum
Soon To Be Vital Information: How to Live in Your Car

speaking of critical discussion-
you could not help yourself could you....had to throw in the relativism as if there really is any comparsion...tsk tsk...

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

then I suggest you get out more.

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

Could someone please show me how "dubya" implemented the Patriot Act all by himself? When did he do away with the 535 people elected by the people to write legislation? This is the difference between Bush and Chavez. Chavez has practically total control. Bush requires congress to pass things first and Bush will be gone in 7 months.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

You should see if you can get Chavez to come here and run for office. He sounds like your kind of leader.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Well, if you're talking to me personally, the semantics game doesn't really interest me. If you're going to claim that Bush was a bystander and that he wasn't given a lot of rubber stamp latitude in the aftermath of 9/11 by Congress et. al, I'll stipulate the technical accuracy of your argument and take for granted the silliness of it in reality, allowing the discussion to move forward. And, for what it's worth, I don't think that Bush and Chavez are comparable, but not because Bush wouldn't want the power Chavez can access. Dubya certainly did his best while in office to expand the scope of the executive to cut through the "red tape" of checks and balances. Hugo is just in an environment with a less educated/savvy populace regarding civil liberties and doesn't have the same deeply entrenched checks to power that Dubya does. We could speculate as to whether or not Bush, given that kind of opportunity to power, would take it. My opinion is an unequivocal "yes he would", but again, that's speculation. In terms of the desire for unilateral power, I see little difference, though Chavez certainly seems like more of a blowhard and drama queen than Bush.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Nah his anti-imperielistic views bug me, its like he intentionally likes to be ridden up the ass by more powerful nations.

I don't want our leader to be the bitch, i want him to have little bitches round the globe.

He doesn't have the US Army at his disposal, currently.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

He has his own and an oil mass bigger than most to use to strengthen his nation but he's weak.

And like Jviehe said, Bush had to get the Patriot Act through Congress, Chavez would never have that ability.

Which is exactly my point. The difference between Bush and Chavez (in terms of unilateral power) is that Bush is prevented by a more stable, checked system from doing what Chavez is able to do. God bless the USA - those guys that drafted the Constitution were pretty clever.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson