Jörg Haider has shaped Austrias post war political landscape like few others and was to some an intrepid political leader who had his "ear close to the people" and to others, especially politically left from him and abroad, a dangerous right wing populist , remembered for his praise of Waffen-SS veterans, his rantings against Muslims and as well his attacks on Jews "trying to impose a "guilt complex" on Austrians and Germans for WW II. When Jörg Haiders FPÖ party joined the austrian governement in 2000, the EU imposed sanctions on Austria. ( that were withdrawn after his retreat to the mountains of Carinthia, where he was governor.)
Now Haider, who had just prepared for his comeback on a national stage has died in a car crash.........


Jörg Haider's Legacy: The Death of a Right-Wing Populist - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

May he rest in peace. Condolence to his wife and his two daugthers who have to get along with out him now, an as I have heard it caring and supportive family person. Especially I am deeply sorry for his mother who had her 90's birthday, the reason why Haider drove to her. The journey he did not survive. There is hardly something harder than seeing the own son or daughter die before in the own lifetime.

Respect for life demands also respect for the dead ones. Otherwise I hardly would be so conciliative...

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

To call Haider a "populist" is an obscene perversion of a once-honorable term. It's sort of like designating Pol Pot a "humanist."

Honestly, I think they got it right calling him a populist.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Are you really comparing Haider with Pol Pot? Thats pretty strong

Haider had a gift, he was a master in speeches and discussions. I had the impression you could give him a paper with positions he had to defend directly before a discussion and he could defend them authentically and perfectly. Actually he was at a TV discussion before national elections just a few months ago, even though he just woke up from narcosis in hospital perhaps 4 hours before and he did fine.

Haider was a classical populist. He said what the people wanted to hear and gave solutions they could understand, no matter if they could work or not. Thats exactly what a populist is about.

A few times he made some errors, for example when he called the working policies in the Third Reich orderly compared to the current ones. That did cost him his job as governor until the next election. He excused for comments like that, even if it might not have been from his heart, however he did not make that error twice. He very well knew the border to right extremism and he did hardly ever cross it, after all getting too near to the Nazis would have cost him votes while not being much of advantage in order to get more votes of others.

No, Haider was no Pol Pot at all, he was a far right populist and he was a master in it.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.

He praised Nazis and believed the SS were men of character. I'm most pleased with the notion that he's dead.

Good riddance.

__________________
All things serve The Beam

Bravo. Guess I'll be happy if I ever hear you are dead. Afterall, you did just as much to deserve that sort of sentiment as Haider. Which, of course, is nothing at all.

For the record, I know 2 former members of the Waffen-SS who are men of great character. But, hey, don't let that get in the way of your preconceived generalizations.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

I will, one day, die, so please feel free to think whatever you'd like at the time. I won't care.

So then, knowing 2 former SS men and then extrapolating your perception of them over the rest of the SS is valid?

Yeah. Good one. Talk about generalizations.

__________________
All things serve The Beam

You missed my point entirely. Thanks for trying though.

Not at all, I am just citing more experience with the Waffen-SS than most people have had. The Waffen-SS, contradictory to popular belief, was not populated with boogey men and other monsters, but men. Some of those men were bad, and some were good, and all were simply soldiers.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Before you call someone a "classical populist," I suggest that you do a little research. You might start with a look at the Farmer's Alliances, continue with a perusal of the Ocala convention of 1892, and look at the platform of the People's (Populist) Party which came out of that meeting. There is a great deal more to being a true "Populist" than the ability to give a good speech, and there is absolutely no way on Heaven or Earth that any racist could be accurately described as a "Populist." It's also more than a little difficult to associate the word with the "far right."

I suggest that the term has been corrupted by people who have no idea what Populism really was.

Or by people who simply want it to fit their ideology.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Since we now know that the Waffen-SS were really a good-natured bunch of Boy Scouts, perhaps you could tell us who those uniformed gentlemen were at Babi Yar?

That is ever more common.

Einsatzgruppe troops, not Waffen-SS. Nice attempt to twist my words though. They were hardly boy scouts, and surely no more than our own troops.

__________________
There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

Ok, thats pretty much off topic. But if those former Waffen-SS men had a great character I really have to ask why they joined the Waffen-SS in first place. Didn't they know what it was about, or were they forced to join it?

One of my grandfathers was asked if he would like to join the SS back then. His response was: no, thanks. He was not bothered with it again.

PS:
For the rest of your post, I agree.

__________________
When the Nazis came for the communists I remained silent, I was no communist.
When the Nazis came for the Unionists I remained silent, I was no Unionist.
When the Nazis came for the Social Democrats I remained silent, I was no Social Democrat.
When the Nazis came for the Jews I remained silent, I was no Jew.
When the Nazis came for me, there was no one left who could protest.