Thread: Kaliningrad Oblast--its future

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Hehe. If you really want to hear some old Palatine chat come listen to the "Pennsylvania Dutch" where I now live.

It might require some very basic elemetary education . . .

YouTube - Amish Vocabulary "Things Seen on a Farm"

YouTube - Amish Vocabulary "Days of the Week"

and then you can move up to kindergarten 'Pennsylvania Dutch'

YouTube - The Little Amish Girl Poem

Brilliant.

Written as an American would need it to say the words in correct palatinate dialect.

It seems to stem from the larger Landau/Pfalz area.
check the map and you will find Houschd. (Spelled Ho-oushd)
Real name Hochstadt.

Karte für Hochstadt (Pfalz) - meine Nachbarschaft

Landau to the west, Germersheim east, Neustadt northwest, Kandel to the south.

Quite a few of the residents there go by the name of Pressler.

Some Presslers emigrated to the USA. One couple moved to Mississippi and their great grandson became famous as Elvis Aaron Presley.

The name Elvis in this case also goes back to palatinate pronounciation.

The great grandfathers name was Alois derived from the italian Aloysius, french version Louis, in dialect pronounced as Alwiis (Alwees).

Now how would you translate "Do I know you or don´t I know" you into bavarian ?
Quite simple:
Kenn i di oder kenn i di net.

Any bavarians in Ireland ?

Originally Posted by stillalive

Brilliant.

Written as an American would need it to say the words in correct palatinate dialect.

It seems to stem from the larger Landau/Pfalz area.
check the map and you will find Houschd. (Spelled Ho-oushd)
Real name Hochstadt.

Quite a few of the residents there go by the name of Pressler.

Some Presslers emigrated to the USA. One couple moved to Mississippi and their great grandson became famous as Elvis Aaron Presley.

The name Elvis in this case also goes back to palatinate pronounciation.

The great grandfathers name was Alois derived from the italian Aloysius, french version Louis, in dialect pronounced as Alwiis (Alwees).

Now how would you translate "Do I know you or don´t I know" you into bavarian ?
Quite simple:
Kenn i di oder kenn i di net.

Any bavarians in Ireland ?

Elvis is of Palatine stock....interesting. Yeah, the surname change makes it sound English, which I had presumed. Thanks for that info.

And no, just Palatines in Ireland. *tips hat to you*

THE PALATINES IN IRELAND -Lecture given by Ambassador Sean G. Ronan<BR>

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

No, just Palatines in Ireland. *tips hat to you*

THE PALATINES IN IRELAND -Lecture given by Ambassador Sean G. Ronan<BR>

BTW I edited the above.

palatine greeting to a friend.

Servus (or Yow)

(yup, we integrated latin as well.)

watch out for Leprechauns, and especially for Lianhan Shee.

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Elvis is of Palatine stock....interesting. Yeah, the surname change makes it sound English, which I had presumed. Thanks for that info.

And no, just Palatines in Ireland. *tips hat to you*

THE PALATINES IN IRELAND -Lecture given by Ambassador Sean G. Ronan<BR>

I missed two generations in Elvis´s family.

But here´s a link to Hochstadt (let me guess, you know enough german to understand it )

1225 Jahr Feier Hochstadt

Rheinland-Pfalz, though a bit farther to the north (Altwied, 220 km to the north of me)is responsible for another American, formerly richest man in the world:

Johann Peter Roggenfeller aus Altwied, getauft am 27. September 1682 in der Ev. Kirche von Rengsdorf, wanderte im Jahre 1723 mit drei Kindern aus Bonefeld (Kirchspiel Rengsdorf im Kreis Neuwied, heute Rheinland-Pfalz) in die USA aus und ließ sich in Germantown, Pennsylvania, nieder.

Yup, John D. came from my Region too.

Wellcome to my blog about Kaliningrad and it`s future. All latest news from Kaliningrad.
Independence for Kaliningrad!
I am myself living in Kaliningrad (Keonigsberg), do not hesitate to ask anything.
You could see my conversation on Kaliningrad issues here.
Debate Europe :: View topic - Freedom to Kaliningrad!

Independence you say?

Hmm, how about economically perspectives?

First of alla welcome to Rustam.

Enjoy your stay here and let us know more about Kaliningrad and the oblast.

To O´Sullivan Bere and Thorvald
my thoughts about independance.

First of all, independance is very unlikely, Moscow needs Baltysk for it´s baltic fleet.

For an independant oblast to survive on it´s own it would have to be turned into a combination of Monaco and Mallorca.
Which requires a lot of initial capital not available at the moment.

Hardly any hotel chain would invest money in an under-developed area.
At present, the only money to be drawn would be illegal money. And that would not only bring in the italian and russian Mafia, it would also immediately stop any help or investment of foreign countries.

Building and selling holiday homes along the mainland coast of the Haff could bring some money. With the return of former inhabitants or their descendants it would also bring a flood of legal claims for return of their properties.

The only feasible solution I can see is a Union with Lithuania. But then, the oblast would be ruled from Vilnius instead of Moscow. And it would again not be independant.
It would be a part of Europe though and given time, it could well become as prosperous as it was before WWII.

Now if I were cheeky I would propose to make Masuren the starting ramp for Euro space rockets. It would save a lot of money in transport and reassembly costs to and in french Guyana. And it would draw tourists to watch the starts.

Originally Posted by Thorvald

Independence you say?

Hmm, how about economically perspectives?

Industry
The region has transport (railcars) and heavy equipment (crane) plants.
Car and truck assembly (GM, BMW, Hammer, KIA, YUEJIN) and production of auto parts are growing industries. There are shipbuilding facilities in Kaliningrad and Sovetsk. Food processing is a mature industry in the region. Manufacture of TVs ("Telebalt", "Baltmiks"). Wood processing, it is presented by the enterprises of Kaliningrad, Sovetska, Svetliy.
Manufacture of TVs ("Telebalt", "Baltmiks"). Main goods produced in the region: cars, TV sets, vacuum sweepers, refrigerators and freezers, microwave stoves.

Natural Resources
Kaliningrad Oblast possesses more than 90% of the world's amber deposits. Most of the mined amber is processed outside of the region, both in Russia and in other countries.
There are oil reservoirs beneath the Baltic Sea not far from Kaliningrad's shore.
In territory of the Kaliningrad region there are considerable stocks of high-quality stone and potassium salt and peat (the general stocks about 3 billion т., the largest deposits — Agilsky, Nesterovsky, Tarasovsky), stocks of brown coal (the largest — Grachyovsky (27 million т.) and Mamontovsky), as well as anhydrite and phosphorites. The area provides itself with such building materials as sand, clay, sandy mixes, and also such nonmetallic materials, as the heavy sand, the containing titan, zirconium and iron manganese. The mineral waters located on the big depths with high degree of a mineralization are widely used in the food-processing industry and region public health services.
In land resource structure of region prevailing are agricultural land, the share of which has to 53,44% territory of the region. Forest resource land occupy 17,92% territory of the region, water resource land 12,23%. 56-kilometers of Baltic Sea coast.

Fishing
Fishing is one of the important regional industries, with big fishing ports in Kaliningrad and Pionerskoe and lesser ones in Svetly and
Rybachy.

Power generation
Average yearly power consumption in the Kaliningrad Oblast was 3.5 bln kWh in 2004 with local power generation providing just 235 mln. kWh.
The balance of energy needs required was imported from neighbouring countries. A new Kaliningrad power station was built in 2005, covering 50% of the Oblast's energy needs. A second power station is scheduled to enter service in 2010, making the Oblast independent from electricity imports. There are plans to build two nuclear power reactors in the eastern part of Kaliningrad.

Transportation
Kaliningrad's airport is located near Khrabrovo. The airport mainly connects Kaliningrad to other Russian cities, but also offers flights to cities in Western Europe and Israel. Military airports in
Chernyakhovsk, Donskoye and Kaliningrad Chkalovsk (naval air base). In Baltiysk one can take a ferry to Saint Petersburg, Copenhagen, Riga, and Kiel. Kaliningrad's international train station is Kaliningrad Passazhirskiy, which in German times was known as Königsberg Hauptbahnhof. Trains depart in the directions of Malbork, Berlin, Baltiysk, Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Minsk, Kharkiv, Anapa, and
Bagrationovsk. A unique feature of the Kaliningrad railway is that the track in the direction of Berlin has a normal gauge, instead of the common Russian broad gauge.
Regional trains depart from Kaliningrad Severnyy, the former Königsberg Nordbahnhof, which is situated on Victory Square, the current city centre. Trains depart to Zelenogradsk and Svetlogorsk and also once a day to Sovetsk.
In 1881 the Königsberg tramway was opened, and it still functions to this day. In 1975 also a trolleybus system was introduced.

Transport corridor
Pan-European corridors
Pan-European corridors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Via/ Rail Hanseatica is the name attributed to the trans-European transport corridor St. Petersburg - Riga - Kaliningrad - Gdańsk - Lübeck. The official name of the corridor is Branch A of Crete Corridor No 1.
Through area territory pass two branches of corridors № 1 and № 9. It is "Riga-Kaliningrad-Gdansk" and "Kiev-Minsk-Vilnius-Kaliningrad". Thus the direction from Kaliningrad to Gdansk provides an exit on a trans-European corridor № 6 "Scandinavia-Balkans". The region arrangement at coast of Baltic sea defines a priority role of sea transport. Nonfreezing ports in Kaliningrad, Baltiysk and Pioneersk provide transport ways to internal regions of Russia, and also to cities of Poland, Germany, the states of Scandinavia and Baltic.
The railway transportation takes a leading place in volume of all kinds of transport services, service of requirements of an economic complex of area, area foreign economic relations. Stations in Kaliningrad, Bagrationovsk, Chernyakhovsk, Mamonovo are capable to carry out transfer of cargoes from European on the Russian track and back.
Highways of the Kaliningrad region are a part of a trans-European network. The basic direction of a corridor «the North - the South» provides advancement of goods traffics from Northern Europe by a Pan-European corridor № 9 which part goes through Kaliningrad region, on territory of Russia through Caspian sea to Iran, Gulf States and India, and also to caucasus and in the countries of the Central Asia.

Tourism
Thanks to the unique water resources and significant number of objects of historical and cultural heritage the Kaliningrad Region hold promise region for development of tourist and recreational activity.

Banking
To make Our territory sort of Switzerland but for Eastern and Northen Europe.

Agriculture.
Medical service for Europeans.

Lots of economic opportunities and it is clear future for independent and open Kaliningrad. But now for Kremlin and military people here it
is mostly only "unsinkable aircraft carrier" for fighting with Europe.

P.S. Independence for Kaliningrad!
By the way, take a look at my blog, I am updated it.

Originally Posted by stillalive

Hardly any hotel chain would invest money in an under-developed area.

You are a little bit wrong.
Hotel Information - Radisson SAS Hotel, Kaliningrad Russia
Who needs hotel chains? Right now we have got posh hotels. Everything depends from fatness of your wallet.
And by the way we do not have bears. Wolves, wild boars, mooses-yes.
Moose in Gumbinnen (Гусев) by Ludvig FORDMEYER, 1911.

Originally Posted by stillalive

First of alla welcome to Rustam.

Enjoy your stay here and let us know more about Kaliningrad and the oblast.

To O´Sullivan Bere and Thorvald
my thoughts about independance.

First of all, independance is very unlikely, Moscow needs Baltysk for it´s baltic fleet.

For an independant oblast to survive on it´s own it would have to be turned into a combination of Monaco and Mallorca.
Which requires a lot of initial capital not available at the moment.

Hardly any hotel chain would invest money in an under-developed area.
At present, the only money to be drawn would be illegal money. And that would not only bring in the italian and russian Mafia, it would also immediately stop any help or investment of foreign countries.

Building and selling holiday homes along the mainland coast of the Haff could bring some money. With the return of former inhabitants or their descendants it would also bring a flood of legal claims for return of their properties.

The only feasible solution I can see is a Union with Lithuania. But then, the oblast would be ruled from Vilnius instead of Moscow. And it would again not be independant.
It would be a part of Europe though and given time, it could well become as prosperous as it was before WWII.

Now if I were cheeky I would propose to make Masuren the starting ramp for Euro space rockets. It would save a lot of money in transport and reassembly costs to and in french Guyana. And it would draw tourists to watch the starts.

I believe Moscow would clearly be the biggest opponent of an independent Kaliningrad Oblast, particularly because of two things.

The first one you mentioned: the Russian fleet being established at Baltiysk (Pillau). It provides the only year round ice-free water port for Russia in the east. I'd add to that Moscow's other military strategic interests it believes it has in the oblast, as witnessed with the recent missile situation. The oblast provides an enclave within the current EU, NATO and Schengen arrangements.

The second is simply nationalism. Moscow certainly puts plenty of emphasis on that, and allowing the oblast to secede and bind itself in other manners--especially into the EU and Schengen, etc--would be taken as an ego blow, especially if the citizens of the oblast wind up profiting and growing for themselves much better than Moscow can or is willing to do for people under its control.

But if the citizens of the oblast can obtain independence, I think it would be much better for them and their future.

Economically I believe the area would benefit considerably. Right now, it is a enclave within the EU and Schengen and it is cut off from the main portion of Russia by a huge land margin, all given due to the fact that the land was not originally in Russian territory to begin with, a point I will also develop further upon. It has a great port location right in the Baltic and a population that can and needs work and development. This means that the oblast provides another mutually beneficial opportunity for EU and other outside investors to invest in Kaliningrad. The people are looking for work and development. Other can offer than for mutually beneficial terms. This was done in Ireland, and now the other former Soviet Bloc satellite states, including the oblast's regional neighbours like Poland and Lithuania.

In fact, the east is where the current waves of investments are going because the populations are offering good deals in return for beneficial investments. With that, the new 'oblast nation' can get developed, employed, get its hands on cash, etc, and simply grow into another well built and properous First World country like the rest of its European nations. And that is especially so if it joins the EU and Schengen, which I expect it would look to do.

On the other hand, the geographical situation of the oblast with main body Russia makes no sense for the best interests of the oblast. In fact, it is pretty gloomy. It might benefit main body Russia to some extent but not the oblast residents.

And in fact, Moscow in my opinion has never treated the oblast residents very well. It has used it for its fleet and beyond that has put very little investment into it for the benefit of its residents. Basically, it has left them in a poor situation insofar as its infrastructure, jobs, development, citizen personal welfare, etc. The way Moscow also runs its government generally is also unhelpful in my opinion compared to how things could be better run as seen in EU countries.

And the residents of the oblast are also going to develop differently than main body Russia just because of who they are and where they are, and I believe that is already apparent to them and others.

First, the word 'Prussia'--which is what the region has always historically been known--is quite an accurate description for the current residents. They are Prussians. When I see residents calling Kaliningrad "Kenig" affectionately, married couples visiting Immanuel Kant's grave as tradition, residents adopting the horse culture around Chernaykhovsk (Insterburg), residents of Sovetsk (Tilsit) admiring the Queen Louise Bridge and trying to revive the historic 'Tilsit cheese' tradition, and so many other adaptations and adoptions of the local history, they already have a personal identity to the area where they are now born and raised and its history. Take that photo Rustam posted above in Gumbinnen. That statue and the buildings in the background are unique to the residents--it reflects the different history of their region.

Of course, the former German heritage of the region is also merged with the present residents' Russian and other ethnic backgrounds given the post-WWII residents came from different parts of the former Soviet Union, but that is all part of fusing their current history with the past and present into a 'Kaliningrad identity' particular to them.

The people themselves also migrated there from all sorts of different areas of the former Soviet Union. Again, that also creates a particular identity with Kaliningrad. Kaliningrad is their identity today.

I already stated my thoughts on how they were brought there and been treated since that time. None of that helps forge a strong bond with mainland Russia and instead creates one moreso amongst Kaliningraders. In my opinion, Kaliningrad is a colony of Russia moreso than an oblast in it.

And that last part seems to push once again towards why I think independence would better suit the oblast people. Just like the UK created colonies in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the United States and elsewhere, colonies eventually develop their own unique identity due to geographical separation, different geographical histories and influences, etc...simply put, different lives and circumstances making each new place of their own for their own.

It's things like these points that make it appear to me that Kaliningraders would be better off psychologically, economically, infrastructurally, etc, by becoming independent and, hopefully in my view for them and others, a part of the EU and Schengen where they can become part of a peaceful and prosperous Europe.

What is wrong with site, my post almost erased?:-)

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

And the residents of the oblast are also going to develop differently than main body Russia just because of who they are and where they are, and I believe that is already apparent to them and others.
First, the word 'Prussia'--which is what the region has always historically been known--is quite an accurate description for the current residents. They are Prussians. When I see residents calling Kaliningrad "Kenig" affectionately, married couples visiting Immanuel Kant's grave as tradition, residents adopting the horse culture around Chernaykhovsk (Insterburg), residents of Sovetsk (Tilsit) admiring the Queen Louise Bridge and trying to revive the historic 'Tilsit cheese' tradition, and so many other adaptations and adoptions of the local history, they already have a personal identity to the area where they are now born and raised and its history. Take that photo Rustam posted above in Gumbinnen. That statue and the buildings in the background are unique to the residents--it reflects the different history of their region.

Not so. Some, yeah, saying that they are Prussians (in search of new identity), but majority will say for sure that they Russians, Belorussians, Ukrainians, etc. I am myself mix of Russian, Tatar, Ukrainian and Bashkir. We are who we are. Sullivan, you will never say that you are English or Prussian, `cos you an Irish. Of course there are difference of us and inhabitants of mainland Russia. Difference by living condition, german past, prussian heritage etc. Lots of people born here and they consider themselves as lords of this land and it is good.
Sullivan, I am surprised that you and others know so much about past and present of territory.

Agreed. The modern inhabitants of what was formally known as Prussia certainly aren't Prussians. I mean, the Prussian peoples were either assimilated by the Germans or whiped out by them during the Baltic Crusades.