I didn't. You also said:

"I am not a socialist in any way, shape, or form, end of story."

while supporting socialism in the form of aid to Israel.

Well, since you don't support socialism in "any way, shape, or form" (except when it comes to sending aid to Israel based on what you said), I wonder why you make that exception. Could you explain?Um, I don't think so. I don't really see a relation. I don't see why you would need to extrapolate from that since I told you I don't support welfare for either party. You, on the other hand, appear to hold a position contrary to your stated ideology.Or I'm anti-socialistic. You missed that possibility.

In any case, what propaganda? That Israel gets US aid or that it has cluster bombed civilians in the past? I'm guessing it's the latter to which you refer.

BEIRUT — The U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon says the Israeli army has handed over data on cluster bombs fired during the 2006 war with the militant Hezbollah.

The move follows U.N. and Lebanese calls for information that could help eliminate the threat that has killed more than 20 civilians and wounded about 200 since the fighting.

A statement by the U.N. in Lebanon says the peacekeepers received "technical strike data and related maps" Tuesday and will pass them on to the Lebanese army.

That's from FOX news:
U.N.: Israel Hands Over Cluster Bomb Data to Lebanon - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

Are you telling me that FOX news is spreading liberal lies about Israel, or that Israel is?

Countryboy,

Slon is no socialist, I have been here for a while and I can back that up. His comments don't come from an anti Israeli agenda, it comes from an anti foreign Aid for war agenda..

Please stop trying to play the man but play the ball...

By the way 'liberal propaganda' your talking about is complete mud... Israel is far more media savvy than the Palestinians. The facts are that the IDF kills 7 civilians to everyone they lose. Gazza Strip is one of the poorest places on the earth. Israel continues to encroach on Palestinian land illegally, which makes them the aggressor. Israel are doing this without UN consent.

I was merely trying to illustrate the absurdity of his assumptions about me, by being absurd myself, in the hope that he might get the hint. Slon is obviously trying to goad me into admitting something, simply to prove his viewpoint, and only his viewpoint is the correct one.

What do you mean by "Please stop trying to play the man but play the ball..."? Am I to submit to Slon's heavy handed interrogation tactics? Ridiculous.

Israel does not purposefully target civilians, the Muslim extremists do, end of story. Whether or not Israel is "more media savvy", is beside the point. If you think the so-called Palestinians aren't media savvy, your just kiddin' yourself.

If you think the left wing media in this country, and abroad, doesn't have an anti-Israel agenda, again, your only fooling yourself.

Also, when you make a statement like: I think your agenda runs a little deeper than simply, "an anti foreign Aid for war agenda.. "

__________________
Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

Its clear youre not really against socialism, but in some respects are for it. Thus you dont mind making the taxpayer pay for another countrys wars.

Moreover you really shouldve seen past that 'only democratic ally in the ME' line some time ago. After all, the US pays out aid to others in the ME, who are not democratic, and has close friendly relations with quite a few deeply un-democratic regimes.
The conclusion can therefore only be that democracy is not the real reason, and therefore the policies you support, such as socialist pay outs to certain regimes in Isreal, Egypt and close relations with regimes such as Saudi Arabia are not about democracy but about power relations, real politik if you will, and interest groups in the home nation.

lastly, re me decrying 3 billion abroad as opposed to trillions at home, you are of aware that the home trillions is posed as a one time plan to 'save the economy', whereas your foreign 3 billion has been given continuously for decades. Not to mention the fact that one may normally expect any government in capitalist direction to spend most of its money domestically.

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Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

Guess who?

For your edification, from Merriam Webster:
The liberal tactic of trying to paint conservatives into a corner with some sort of broad brush is really rather comical.

Any nation must have power alliances in order to survive, and prosper in a global community.

I am actually against foreign aid to radical Muslim theocracies, such as Saudi Arabia. So please quit making assumptions about me.

At least you admit the plan is only "posed" as a plan to save the economy.

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

Many thanks. However, we can both agree that socialism is given a much broader definition in right wing American circles. And given your own political wing's discourse about how government pay outs are socialist, its not too much of stretch to point out such in America's foreign policy.




Indeed, Im sure youll then agree that the rights tactic of trying to justify support for Isreal merely on the grounds that its a democracy, never mind what that democracy is actually voting to do is also amusing also yes?

Eh? Of course. One isnt attacking those alliances. Just dispensing with the notion that the right actually gives fig about democracy before such things as power alliances and certain biases against peoples of a particular region such as the Palestinians for example.

For all anyone knows that's just a wish to give hand outs to the Jewish state and not the Muslim states. But anyway, the handouts are to Egypt, not SA, thats more about military contacts close political relations etc etc.



Whether it actually will or not posed is immaterial to the issue, all policies are posed one way or another. Besides theres little other credible reason for such a dramatic spend.
But anyway, we can both agree thus that trillions domestically does not make billions abroad somehow ok, especially for a right wing capitalist.

__________________
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

Guess who?

Except that my "assumption" about you isn't absurd and isn't as much an assumption as it is a fairly solid conclusion based on your stated positions. But hey, feel free to show everyone how wrong I am and reply to my post by explaining why you supposedly oppose socialism, while supporting handouts for Israel. If my "assumptions" are so "absurd," it should be easy for you.So, you admit that you're hiding your true agenda? This seems like a pretty big post to make just to avoid explaining why you believe something, especially after you said you believe it. It's almost like you're avoiding it just to keep your position a secret because you're ashamed of it.Oh, I'm sorry for asking you about your opinion, in a thread about a relevant topic where you already posted said opinion. It was so heavy handed of me! So Israel accidentally dropped those cluster bombs? Or did they mix those bombs up with care packages? So it's those liberal Israel haters at FOX news that are lying about Israel, aren't they? Well, you don't have to concern yourself with that, since you're arguing with me and not "the left wing media in this country, and abroad."Uhuh, it's clearly the jew hatred. I must also oppose foreign aid to Africa and Palestine because of all those judas assholes living there. God damn greedy Palestinian and African jews!

Look Slon,
I am more than happy to have a civil debate with you, but you are apparently not interested in that.

It is people like you that give conservatism a bad reputation. You sir, are no conservative. Please quit masquerading as one.

I am ashamed of nothing. Words have meaning, and you cannot simply (simply being the key word here) apply a meaning to a word and proclaim it is the truth.

For the record, some of the comments you have attributed to me, were not even directed at you.

__________________
Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

You need only look at the person dodging the questions (you) to figure out who is uninterested in debate.I don't really care about labels like "conservative" as they apply to me. The term technically means "saving" and "conserving," and perhaps even "keeping to the old ways." I keep to what I think is right and support the way I think things should be.So are you going to answer the question I posed or will you continue dodging and avoiding the issue?If they were made by you, then wouldn't they be attributed to you, anyway?

Look, this is getting boring. You say you are ashamed of nothing, and yet you continue dodging the question I asked about your opinion. Here it is again for you:

Now, would you like to complain about some of what was said there? Is any of it untrue? If it is true, please take the time to answer the question.

This thread is way off topic.

Socialism has nothing to do with this because everyone believes in socialism, like the Post Office, roads, fire Departments, public schools, etc.

Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with this because the Palestinians are Semitic, and the European Jews are not really.

Anit-Zinoism is a valid part of this thread, because Israel is against Jewish religious beliefs.

But being against foreign aid to a country like Israel, that has a higher standard of living then we do, is relevant and has nothing to do with Zionism or Semitism.


The point is we can't afford this kind of wasteful foreign aid anymore, and we can't afford the attacks from the rest of the world, that this causes us.

Except the guy I talked to said he didn't support it at all. That leads me to believe that he support very little government intervention. However, unconditional government aid to Israel is not in line with such an opinion.Which is why the question of socialism is quite relevant. He appears to support government aid to Israel even when we are as fucked up as we are. When the time comes to cut spending, foreign aid is a dead giveaway. And yet, he still supports sending them money.

Hmm its likely instead that you are a psuedo-conservative like most Republicans who put party and belligerent notions of power before the true ideals of conservatism.
But thats ok, its not as if youre in a minority.

Anyway lets move on from internal political labelling and get back on topic.

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Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

Guess who?

UN Resolution 181 called for two states side by side, A Jewish state and an Arab state. So there’s nothing new about this at all.

The Avalon Project : UN General Assembly Resolution 181

So why is it so unreasonable to expect Arabs to recognize Israel as a Jewish state?

Most countries recognize Muslim states as Muslim states and respect their culture and religious identity. So why is it so terrible to recognize a Jewish State? Not all countries have to be like France.

As for the air space being controlled by Israel, that's not so bad either. They had an international airport in Gaza, (look up Gaza or Arafat international airport), and that worked just fine until they declared war on Israel with the second intifada. So if there was a peace deal I'm sure it would work again to everyone's satisfaction. And if they decide to build a few more air ports that would be fine too! As long as they coordinate with Israel since it's a very small area.

And nobody's saying the Palestinians can't have an armed police force, and border patrol, and whatever they need to keep law and order. What's so bad about demanding that a future Palestinian state be demilitarized? Some countries don’t have a real military force per se and they're still sovereign states. What's so terrible about having a peaceful demilitarized Palestinian state without rockets and without heavy weaponry?

Like someone said in the movie 'Tombstone': We're not saying you can't own a gun. We're not even saying you can't carry a gun. All we're saying is you can't carry a gun in town. That's not so bad, is it?

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With partners like these peace was possible!

I'll tell ya why, it's called, antisemitism. And it's been around for a very, very long time. Long before WWII.

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Democrats, finding new ways to destroy wealth for over 100 years.

Interesting post.

Probably the Arabs wouldnt want to agree to the minority Isreali Arabs having no future in the Isreali state by dint of their religion.

As for airspace, to an extent co-ordination would be correct and I agree. But if its the coordination that simply means Isreal tell the PA what planes fly where and when then its pretty hard to justify that.

Re militarisation. Complete demilitarisation is a non starter. However, both sides can agree to the PA not bringing in heavily weapons. However, this would be subject to the PA having a defence agreement with the surrounding Arab nations in the event that Isreal should change its mind some time and want to take more land.

Im sure you can agree to this.

__________________
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

Guess who?