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To answer your question on the second part, there are things to be considered. One is simple justice to the victims and bringing people who victimised them to proper accountability. One needs only to be reminded of the admonition sitting above the Old Bailey courthouse in London to remember a key point of justice: "Defend the Children of the Poor & Punish the Wrongdoer". Enlarged photo:Originally Posted by Shanon
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_3Q3K6vR2pqc/SL...8/IMG_0507.JPG
The man stands convicted of participating in the blowing up of a commercial airliner killing 270 innocent people. That's a large amount of murdering in one heinous event, and Megrahi basically got a very short time sentence as it is given his remaining life span for each person killed. Taking pity on health grounds to allow him to go home a free man doesn't fit the crime or provide fair justice to the victims. He could have very well have just been transferred to a Scottish medical ward in its prison system.
Moreover, there are larger principles at stake. Serious crime must be taken seriously or else it won't be a serious matter at all to commit them. Undue leniency for the most serious offences serves to encourage them. It creates a calculus for doing them. For example, if I know that in most European countries that a 'life sentence' for murder means I'll only get 7-15 years at most, then it provides an incentive to commit murder on a 'cost/benefit' ratio and evaluation. If I know that killing multiple people will make no difference than if I kill just one and the same kind of sentence will be issued (concurrent sentences), then that also provides an incentive to commit the crimes.
And in the case of health clemency, it also gives an incentive for older and/or unhealthy people to commit such crimes. Take Croatia for example given your flag signals you are Croatian. If I am a Serb or Muslim militia leader and I have vicious desires to exterminate Croatians, I have more incentive to commit the crimes if I know I won't spend the rest of my life in prison. And if I am older and/or unhealthy, then I have even more incentive to do them because I know by my age and/or health will likely give rise to a health-related clemency release at some time. Thus, if I'm a 60 year old militia leader, I have an incentive to take responsibility for filling trenches with dead Croatians because I'm old and/or unhealthy and will likely to get out before I die anyway on health grounds.
And then there is the issue of undue propaganda from releasing such people. Megrahi already received a 'hero's welcome' and where he will be presenting himself as a victim and miscarriage of justice based on themes of his choosing rather than a perpetrator even though a court convicted him of being part of the plot to blow that airliner up. If he is guilty as the court declared him to be, then that's a form of adding insult to injury to the victims and also can cause even more problems relating to terrorism and international relations on the larger scale.
Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 08-24-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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What a luck that you are not a German - otherwise you would throw me out of my own country.
By the way - as one of my sisters died - she once had very good friends under the hells angels - we had to play a song of the Mammas and the Pappas on her funeral on a snowy winters day: YouTube - The Mamas & The Papas - California dreamin
By the way - as one of my sisters died - she once had very good friends under the hells angels - we had to play a song of the Mammas and the Pappas on her funeral on a snowy winters day: YouTube - The Mamas & The Papas - California dreamin
Interesting that there is no song about dreaming of heading to Germany.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Mx_p32JPk
Last edited by anobsitar; 08-24-2009 at 07:48 AM.
President
The release of this man has powerful symbolic importance that goes beyond the act itself.
The message has been clearly perceived and interpreted among the Muslims who have greeted him as a returning hero; the spectacle of Scottish flags waving to celebrate the return of this terrorist is an unmistakeable sign.
While I understand the desirability of this act as a shrewd and hard-headed political move inthe long run, I still deplore it as a despicable moral and ethical act that sends many dangerous messages.
The response on this forum is shocking but not surprsing. The vast majority are strongly in favor of the release and spend many of their posts lambasting Americans for not being filled with enough 'love'. This is a weird travesty of both justice and compassion.
In the business commuity, the response is a good deal more pragmatic. This is a public relations disaster for Scotland and, to a lesser extent, for Britain as a whole.
Calls for boycotts are treated with childish, amused contempt here on the forum - but there is nothing remotely funny about it. The US is Scotland's largest trading partner and they are discovering that they cannot get away with antics like this without, literally, paying a price.
I do not personally support a boycott under any circumstances. The people who are punished are almost always innocent bystanders who are just trying to make a living. But there is no question that this is a story that will not go away.
The long-term results will likely be quite positive for Britain in the Muslim world. But they have paid a price for it - their honor.
President
This is taken from the Philadelpia Inquirer. It is the response of one family to the release of this man. It speaks for itself:
Monica Yant Kinney: Justice, closure evaporate for local Flight 103 family | Philadelphia Inquirer | 08/23/2009In Cherry Hill, Bob and Eileen Monetti couldn't believe their ears. The couple lost their 20-year-old son, Rick, in the Lockerbie bombing and have spent the last 20 years seeking justice and improved airline security in his name.
To the Monettis, MacAskill not only disregarded the wishes of victims' families, but also judged them - and the American legal system - by implying that those who disagreed with the "compassionate release" were vengeful.
"We didn't ask to take him up 31,000 feet and push him out of an airplane," notes the Monettis' daughter, Kara Weipz.
"All we asked," adds Eileen Monetti, "is that he serve his time."
President
Plenty of people in this thread have been quick to say how the Scottish should feel about this...
First they came for the mimes, and I did not speak out, because I was a mime.
Vice President
So a few Scottish flags represent the entire Muslim world? Yeah, OK. Sure.No, not really. The vast majority simply don't agree with your Chicken Little gnashing of teeth. The travesty here is your inability to see why your 'reasoning', politely put, is flawed.
While I understand the desirability of this act as a shrewd and hard-headed political move inthe long run, I still deplore it as a despicable moral and ethical act that sends many dangerous messages
The response on this forum is shocking but not surprsing. The vast majority are strongly in favor of the release and spend many of their posts lambasting Americans for not being filled with enough 'love'. This is a weird travesty of both justice and compassion.No, not really. This will be forgotten very shortly.
In the business commuity, the response is a good deal more pragmatic. This is a public relations disaster for Scotland and, to a lesser extent, for Britain as a whole.No, no boycott will occur, no negative effects will be visited upon Scotland, and they will pay no price. Boycotts like these are almost universally jokes.
Calls for boycotts are treated with childish, amused contempt here on the forum - but there is nothing remotely funny about it. The US is Scotland's largest trading partner and they are discovering that they cannot get away with antics like this without, literally, paying a price.Come back in a month. Nothing will have chaned.
I do not personally support a boycott under any circumstances. The people who are punished are almost always innocent bystanders who are just trying to make a living. But there is no question that this is a story that will not go away.You clearly understand nothing of honor.
The long-term results will likely be quite positive for Britain in the Muslim world. But they have paid a price for it - their honor.
President
The issue has now moved beyond Scotland - which, indeed, it had to - and is now involving London.
Kadhafi's son has publical thanked our 'friends in the British government' for all of their help. How much truth is there is in this? We don't know yet.
Certainly they are making plenty of mischief. Did the government of Scotland think they could trust the Libyan government to keep its mouth shut?
The deepening of the relationsip between Scotland and Libya will come at a very high price. They may find that doing business with radical Islam is not as easy as they expect.
The full involvement of the government in London is not yet known. That will likely take some time.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125112166651953769.html
The political fallout from Scotland's release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber has spread to London, as questions arise about whether the U.K. government played a bigger role in the decision than it has publicly acknowledged.
Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi's son Seif al-Islam holds hands with freed Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmet al-Megrahi.
On Sunday, U.S. criticism of the decision took on a more strident tone, with one senior official saying it "makes a mockery of the rule of law."
The political stakes for U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown mounted after a son of Libyan leader Col. Moammar Gadhafi, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, issued a statement on Saturday thanking "our friends in the British government who played an important role in reaching this day." He said he believed the decision to release Abdel Baset al-Megrahi would further improve relations between the U.K. and the oil-rich North African nation.
A spokesman for the U.K. Foreign Office said the decision was Scotland's alone and had nothing to do with any trade deals between Britain and Libya.
Proud - Scotts should be proud. I can live with if they are not proud, but why should I? Would be much more easy for me if the Scotts would be proud.
Whoever fight monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
YouTube - In Extremo - Ave Maria
President
I just read this on the AP:
So the Libyan government did not honor the secret negotiations with Scotland?Scotland's justice minister is standing by his decision to free the Lockerbie bomber, but says Libya broke a promise by giving the convicted terrorist a hero's homecoming welcome.
Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill says the warm welcome for Abdel Baset al-Megrahi breached assurances from Libyan authorities that the return would be low-key.
They promised they would not give him a hero's welcome! And they broke their promise! How shocking!
It looks like Britain had better start learning how to deal with their friends in Libya. The militant stupidity of these comments have to be read to be believed.
President
There are many sides to this story. The conspicuous and embarrassing silence of Gordon Brown is only adding fuel to the fire:
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Brown's Lockerbie release dilemma
So?
It is the business of the Scots to decide whether they support their government on this issue. Not for the rest of the world. And the Scots seem overwhelmingly to be embarrassed and angry. I feel kinda sorry for them.
U.S. House Representative
My father died of prostrate cancer two years ago. It really doesn't much matter where this guy spends the next three months. I can assure you of one thing. He won't be playing bucket list with Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson.
President
No - this is most certainy not a private matter.
As for them being "embarrassed and angry", I have not seen evidence of that. They should be thoroughly ashamed.
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