Thread: The White House says it "deeply regrets'' Scottish government's decision.

Originally Posted by Stapo

Why on earth does this comment is not surprising to me at all? :rolleyes:

Maybe you are allknowing? Allknowing people are seldom surprised until the motmen of truth coimes the first time.

Anyway, other than to let loose a tirade of bs, you have nothing to offer to back your claim; pathetic anob, really pathetic.

Pathos? I? Not really - because only god knows what's in your heart - but I never would turn my back to you because I have a Siegfried complex. Anyhow I programmed Balmung (Gram) in a new way, Fafnir. It's cutting steel like butter now.

By the way Anob, your off topic.

Anyway why don't you just PM me or open a thread about me (or whatever), if my political view truelly interest/bother you that much?

I mean every once in a while you come up with your stuff of calling me a Nazi in various threads, then there's silence and surprise,surprise then the whole issue is started all over again.

Does it give you any kick? Do you suffer from brain damage and forget your former posts easily and because of it come up with the same old stuff again and again?

Libya recently turned away from its nuclear and chemical weapons programs.

Isn't it worth letting this guy out to go and die in his home country in order to keep Libya on the right path?

I know its tough on the Victims families, but it doesn't actually cost us anything to let him go

Hey, look who's not dead yet...

Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, who is suffering from terminal prostate cancer, no longer receives hospital treatment after ending the course of chemotherapy that he had been given after returning to his homeland last August.
Professor Karol Sikora, the London-based doctor who examined Megrahi and predicted he would be dead by last October, admitted this weekend that the fact the bomber is still alive might be "difficult" for the families of the 270 victims of the attack.

...
The Sunday Telegraph revealed last September that the Libyan government had paid for the medical evidence which helped Megrahi, 57, to be released. The Libyans had encouraged doctors to say he had only three months to live.
The life expectancy of Megrahi was crucial because, under Scottish rules, prisoners can be freed on compassionate grounds only if they are considered to have this amount of time, or less, to live.
Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Justice Secretary, ruled last August that Megrahi should be freed. Megrahi's release came after Libyan leaders warned that lucrative oil and trade deals with Britain would be cancelled if the bomber died in jail.

Of course, there is a solution.

I got curious last week, and did a search on him. Since I hadn't heard anything about his death, I wasn't surprised he was still alive. Was wondering if anyone was going to take notice and say anything.

Maybe Cheney can send one of his covert death squads to enforce the original prognosis! Anyone got a problem with that?

Awesome old thread. This is a bump with the news that megrahi is still alive, at the verge of June, which means 9 months, 11 days since his release, and he was supposed to be (likely to be) dead within three months.

Bad diagnosis? Oil deal? Fear of second appeal going ahead? No, not that one...

Some great anger here. No doubt the man is legally guilty and that counts for something. But I'm curious if anyone's attitude would change if, hypothetically, he were physically innocent. Like, all the evidence against him being flawed, inconsistent, bought, and planted? Does that matter, or would we still have to rely on the verdict?

Thanks to anyone who takes this thought exercise a little seriously.

I'll provide a bump. Anyone got any grind to spare?

I realize this forum moves a little slower than I'm used to, so I've given it several days.

I told a friend of mine that Megrahi's actual innocence is a subject you just can't discuss in U.S. politics. He said I was wrong, people love to question the government and official stories. I bet him, and here I am at U.S. politics and no one so far will discuss the issue in this context?

I'll give my friend one more chance to take my dollar. Bastard Megrahi's still alive. Does no one care that there's tons of evidence he was framed? That the real killers were never caught?

Of course not. It's too tempting to cut that whole awkward line of though off at the knees, and continue the mantra of "we got the right guy and he should pay and that's it."

Talk about giving aid and comfort to the Pan Am 103 bombers. "We're all in on the cover-up, you guys just run back to Syria and/or new lives in Virginia, etc. while we cover your backs."

I'll earn that dollar, but no rush.

Can I post links?
A Message from Dr. Jim Swire

A number of us long ago abandoned belief in the Malta point of origin for the bag.

The judges themselves at Zeist pointed out that there was no evidence as to how Megrahi was supposed to have broken Luqa's security, and it now appears, with the second appeal materials available (on megrahimystory.net) untrue that Megrahi rather than Talb could have been the buyer of the clothing from Marie's House.

However it was the technology of Jibril's PFLP-GC IEDs which was presented at Zeist by (W) Germany's Herr Goble which first revealed what you had to believe in as coincidence, to accept the prosecution case. He showed that these IEDs were stable on the ground indefinitely, but because of their air-pressure switch (which took 7 mins from take-off to switch on the timer) and their timers which were crude (analog and not adjustable by the user) all running for around 30 minutes, they were obligated to explode around 37 minutes after take off. PA103 was airborne for 38 minutes before being destroyed.

Yet we had to believe that the Malta origin, using an adjustable digital timer which could easily have been set for a mid Atlantic explosion 'just happened'... etc etc.

In those days no one in the court knew that there had been a break-in to the appropriate sector of the Heathrow perimeter early in the morning of the disaster.
That was concealed for 12 years (till after the Zeist verdict) when the Heathrow guard (Manly: deceased)asked the defence why his evidence had not been used despite the Metropolitan police special branch having grilled him almost immediately.

Presumably Henderson's policemen must have heard about it, but the Crown Office has denied to me in writing that they knew about it.

Since the break-in was fully documented and opened an obvious route whereby the suitcase that Bedford saw (before the Frankfurt flight had even landed) might have been brought into the airport and left perhaps with the Iran air personnel close by to put in the PanAm container while Bedford was out of the shed, one can assume that even the Zeist court could not have accepted that the Malta story was true against such a clear and simple alternative explanation.

Who concealed the Heathrow evidence for 12 years and why?

Since the airport knew it had been broken into immediately, but did not know who had broken in, nor with what motive, why did they not suspend flights immediately till a satisfactory explanation was found?.

These questions will have now to be answered.

All who display independent thought about this disaster are welcome in the fight to lay the fallacies of the 'official version' open to analysis, and to the public's sight.

- Jim, father of Flora, a victim of Lockerbie, who just wants to know who murdered her and why they were not prevented from doing so.

What the heck is wrong with my friend Jim? "Helsinki Syndrome" has been alleged. Blasted if anyone will ever get specific about what's actually wrong with what he's saying. Shuffling and shoegazing. Pathetic.

"Stockholm syndrome." My bad, got Helsinki warning mixed in there.

Who concealed the Heathrow evidence for 12 years and why?

The answer to that is a combination of the investigators and the bulk of conspiracy theorists. Not that it was intended, but nearly all discourse up til recently disavowed a bomb introduction at London/Heathrow, pointing to Frankfurt if not further afield. So Dr. Swire and I, and a growing number of others, feel this is where to find the answers about what DID happen. But that's a bit advanced for this monologue here.

Let's start with what we have to support Megrahi's guilt. Essentially, that's the fact that he was convicted, but we wouldn't get far discussing that in itself. The question that's been raised, and that needs to be considered, is how justified was that judgment?

To start considering that, we need to know what the conviction was based on. This has two parts - evidence considered, and the consideration itself.
A surface-level treatment can be found at Wikipedia, covering the basics of the evidence and some of the questions and counter-points.
More detail can be found in the 87-page Opinion of the Court accompanying the 2001 verdict. (PDF direct)

The evidence brought against Megrahi and his long-forgotten "accomplice" Fhimah, as it was assembled in 1991, can be roughly summarized so:

1) Abdul Majid Giaka (called "Abdul Majid" in the Opinion PDF): He says Megrahi had him write a report on how to bomb a "British plane." Says Megrahi owned TNT that Fhimah kept in a desk drawer (the indictment twists this into Semtex-H). When the two arrived back on Malta December 20, Giaka says they brought a brown hardshell Samsonite case - he was there and saw it. At trial, he bombed. The judges noticed his stories lacked logic and only appeared in mid-91 as he was basically threatened - give good stories and go to the US as a witness, or go home to Libya across his burnt bridges. We don't know what town he wound up in, or under what name. Judges tossed his testimony in whole. This was the main factor in Fhimah's acquittal.

Strangely, he's not mentioned in the Wiki page, despite being central to the investigation. ???

2) Gauci's Identification: Without Giaka's 12/20 suitcase story, the only evidenc linking Megrahi directly to any bombing evidence is his supposedly buying the clothes that filled out the bomb suitcase. A Maltese shopkeeper, Anthony Gauci, supposedly gave Scots police a near-perfect run-down of items found scorched, as having been bought by one guy on a certain day. The day is clearly November 23, taken straight from his own words. Megrahi was off malta that day, all agree. The buyer was Libyan, the idiot Gauci was sure, and "about six foot or more in height," "well-built," big in the chest, and around 50 years old. Megrahi was at the time 36, 5'8" tall, average-slight build. And off Malta on that day.

Gauci never even lied. He said megrahi in a photo lineup in '91 and a parade in 2000 most resembled the man. 1991 "identification"

about ten years older, and he would look like the man who bought the clothes.

2000 "identification"

“not exactly the man I saw in the shop. Ten years ago I saw him, but the man who look a little bit like exactly is the number 5 [Megrahi]”

Reward for Tony after fudging it through Zeist? $2 million and a new life in Australia. Prize for his coach-brother Paul, $1 million and being Tony's roommate.


Continued...

Okay, that's about all the direct evidence against Megrahi himself, which is what matters here. I needn't go into the shady dealings around the Libyan timer fragment PT/35(b), the bizarre chronology of alleged radio model discovery, the illogical elimination of John Bedford's story, etc.

There is the issue of "baggage records" suggesting an unaccompanied suitcase from flight KM180 getting transferred to 103. This is too big for now. I'll come back to it later maybe. Feel free to google it. Basic question to ask is "just why WAS Bogomira's printout the only record?"

And there are various circumstantial clues:

• - Megrahi was using a false passport on his Dec 20 visit to Malta, suggesting he was up to something sneaky.
• - Megrahi was at Luqa airport at the time KM180 was loading. There's no evidence they could find that Fhimah, the more important one, was there. Probably wasn't.
• - Megrahi was a JSO operative. This was never proven, but he was some kind of secret agent. Possible JSO.
• - Fhimah was a JSO op. At the trial this wasn't even argued by the prosecution.
• - Megrahi had about $2 million in a Swiss bank account. Again, he was up to something sneaky. This was probably related. Evidence that this was connected at all to any kind of terrorist plot? Nil.

But... there... was ... a conviction.

Can anyone in this smarter-than-average forum community ascertain the significance of the above to the previous content of this thread? And type a few words about it? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Marcus1124

Maybe Cheney can send one of his covert death squads to enforce the original prognosis! Anyone got a problem with that?

Yeah, I do. You prove a case for representative democracy opposed to direct. At least some of the idiocy of the masses must be filtered out of the public will before employing it.

On the other hand, it's clear you've been grossly manipulated, with the rest of the masses, to fit the designs hatched by an out-of-touch, over-powered establishment enabled by a lack of accountability.