yes I am well aware of the dynastic intanglements, yet german culture and french culture for instance were not common amongst each other.

as far as 63 years goes, the war to end all wars lasted, what? 20 years?63 years is not very long in context. never say never....

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

In a way it was very common, especially due to our centuries old tradition to visit each other regualary (once per generation) and then to have armed discussions.

Anyway the influence of the French culture on the German one is in decline, as one can e.g. notice by the lesser amount of French words used in the German language during the past decades.


63 years without a major war is an eternity given our European history, but I agree, never say never.

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"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

no the US made that possible more than anything else, and the stance of the USSR and the carving out of eastern europe after ww2 , without us, to assume you would have had 63 year of peace , is well, not quite honest, no it cannot be proven, but I'd say history is a very good indicator.


I never said they had NO cultural roots in common. I asked and you may have missed it, in what context?

Christianity is one context, of course BUT there were still major differences as to cultural roots as in society, viewpoints of that religious dogma, and outlook aside from that didn't stop you from ravaging the continent and each other, every 5 decades, at one point killing off 1 full third of the population, did it?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

1. You are trying to change the subject here. While there is no reasonable doubt that Americas military presence in Europe has slowed down the Soviets territorial appetite ( and therefore provided the framework for western Europes peace and prosperity) european reconsiliation and unification has been and had to be a european achievement. Peace AMONG the nations ( most notably between formerly hostile France and Germany) was nothing that could be forced from outside and the US role in founding the EU was marginal.



2. Yes, common culture has not kept us from killing each other in the past. But it provided the founding fathers and mothers of the EU with the hope that things can also turn differently. And today we see that this IS the case.

Czech president Klaus, beeing the only EU leader still trying to put the brakes on the ratification of the Lisbon treaty by finding excuse after excuse for not beeing able to sign it ( the last one was the idiotic claim that the Lisbon treaty would ultimately bring the Germans back that were driven off the country after 1945, a completely separate issue that has been solved decades ago) has now indicated that he will give in and accept the reform treaty.
The last hopes of EU enemies are resting on the british conservatives after a likely election victory next year withdrawing the british ratification of the Lisbon treaty. But this move seems to be rather unlikely since it would catapult Britain from the political european stage...........



Czech President 'will likely sign EU Treaty' | France 24

I don't think Vaclav Klaus will sign the Lisbon treaty. Why should he do so? A center of his political motivation was it always to say: "the European Union is like the Soviet Union" so Czechs had to live in fear in both directions. If someone lives in fear it's more easy to control and to manipulate him. In case he would sign the Lisbon treaty he would not be anymore a hardliner and maybe some people would ask "what is he really knowing about the world?".

But I have to say something about the german politician Günther Verheugen: The European Union should fire Günther Verheugen because he's ignoring completly truth and human rights in case of the Sudentendeutschen. He is a German - but this gives him no right to say Germans are people where it is allowed to ignore the human rights completly only because we are generous people. Whatever Mr. Verheugen says about the "problem" Sudetendeutsche - this is absolutely no problem because this question has absolutely nothing to do with the EU and/or the Lisbon treaty (otherwise Czechia could not be a member of the EU) - it's only and exclusively a moral problem ('solved' (but still not completly realized) since decades now from Vaclav Havel and Richard von Weizsäcker) between Czechs and Germans. Mr. Verheugen is only angry about the CSU because in Bavaria are existing some local problems between his own political party FDP and the CSU. It's enough if one idiot like Vaclav Klaus exists - we don't need additional now a german idiot like Günther Verheugen who is not representing the European Union anymore but only his private opinion as a politician of the german political party FDP.

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Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Damn it anob, Verheugen left the FDP in the early 80's and since then have been a member of the SPD, so labeling him as a FDP member is odd.

Anyway whatever struggle Klaus/ the Sudeten wannabe Germans and Verheugen might have had in the past, is all truelly irrelevant, as it's purely good news, that the EU can move forward again!

I mean we have globalisation and a demograpical breakdown facing all of us Europeans before us, so stupid shit from the past is and should be forever irrelevant.

So just a happy Goodbye for "president" Klaus, wannabe Germans and everyone else wasting our time.

__________________
"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

And whatelse is the reason for the bullshit Verheugen speaks about?

__________________
Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

It's not irrelevant. For example the Benes decrees are allowing every Czech to murder every German (and Austrian or Hungarian) on no other reason then only because he is a German. Same with robbery and so on. Such an unbelievable scandal never can be right in no future under no circumstances. The EU is ignoring what is indeed not ignorable - that's all. In case Vaclav Klaus really likes to establish murder and robbery as legal rights in the European Union then there is no way to do so because in this case the European Union really would be nothing else than a new kind of Soviet Union. Also pragmatism is not able to change anything in this case.

I don't think you have a problem.

What Czechs are doing is not my problem. My problem is what Verheugen is doing. And you are a typical racist. You have to decide what Czechs are doing? Since when? You like to "kill" a Czech politician? Who you are? You are fighting against the german democracy and in the same time you like to give Czechs the rules what they have to do or not to do? I like to fire Verheugen - he's a german politician on a completly wrong way.

__________________
Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

Well to be 100% honest with you, I haven't followed his every remarks about German/Czechs relationships.

The reason he may offend people like you by speaking the way he does, is probably due to him being a fucking politican.

Anyway the way I see it, we share a common intermixed history with each other (Germans/Czechs) and due to it's ugliest/most brutal periods, it's at the end the best to leave our history behind us.

Forget about the past, embarace the present and hope for a better future, as it seems like a good mantra.

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"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

He did not offend people like me.




History is nothing what someone is able to redefine if it was not it in the way the people liked it.

Who is forgetting the past has to repeat it. For a Nazi this is maybe a dream - but I don't think the most Czechs, Germans and/or Austrains, Hungarians and Europeans in total like to follow an endless repition of history. Alzheimer is a nice joke - that's all. No one likes it really.

YouTube - La Marmotte by Beethoven

__________________
Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

First, forgive me for taking so long to reply.

Unfortunately, it is not as clear cut as you implying. Let us use Germany for example. Sure, the nation we now call Germany has its roots only back to 1870/71. However, before that, there was a unifying force behind the German peoples that even the German states prior to the 2. Reich acknowledged. Their unique mix of peoples as you pointed out gave rise to a distinct culture from the rest of Europe that is rooted much further back in history. Some might even say as far back as the Völkerwanderung, given linguistic evidence. The same could be said of the French, Dutch, Danes, etc....

I am not saying that European unity shouldn't eventually come about. What I am saying is that, if I were in your shoes, I would like to see a bit more autonomy for the states themselves. If I were a Frenchman, for example, I would not feel very comfortable in knowing that a Pole, Italian, or Swede has a say in how I live my life.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Could be much more worse - a Frenchman could tell you how you have to live your life and he would find out that you are not a french being because you don't speak french, Frollo ... ah: Thorhammer.

YouTube - The Bells of Notre Dame Sing-Along

__________________
Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs

What??

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Seems to me you don't have any idea about what the European Union really is - except that it is something what english speaking nations have to hate becasue the most people in the European Union don't speak english - while they know very well what they are doing, without any need to learn english. The cultural plurality of the different nations with their different ethnic backgrounds and their different cultures are absoltuely no problem, because Europeans are respecting each other automatically in all this not existing problems: We love plurality and in case someone moves in another country within one or two generations every European is integrated everywhere in Europe.

A problem about different ways of life exists in Europe only in the american culture - very agressive, very loud, very domninant in the eyes of lots of people - and in the cultures of the Muslims, because of problems of poorness, knowledge and integration.

By the way. Your comments about Germany are ... strange ... for a German like me. If you really like to learn something about Germans you could for example try to understand the following song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdSs4KrsOs0&NR=1

__________________
Scientia et potentia humana in idem coincidunt, quia ignoratio causae destituit effectum
Sir Francis Bacon

On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Etruh7Ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JkHBC5lDs