Geert Wilders On Hate Speech In The Koran - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

picaro · #1 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

As you may not know, Wilders is being charged with 'hate speech' by the Dutch Courts, and they've decided to hold his 'trial' just before the elections early next year in the hopes of keeping him from getting elected, a very sleazy tactic on their part.

Is Wilders a hypocrite for calling for the banning of the Koran? Is the Koran hate speech?

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It's worth considering. Is supporting Wilders as a champion of free speech "a bit rich"? Is he just a totalitarian book-banner?

In fact, no. Wilders made a speech in the Dutch Parliament about banning the Qur'an in September 2007 (thanks to Andrew Bostom). In it, Wilders outlines some of the incitement to violence that is contained in the Qur'an -- here is just part of his argument:

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30 [actually 9:29], which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Then he goes on to call for consistency in the application of Dutch laws that restrict speech that incites to violence, but which have never been applied to the Qur'an or to the hate-filled imams who preach jihad and Islamic supremacism in obedience to Qur'anic dictates:

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

In calling the Qur'an hate speech with reference to the Dutch Penal Code, Wilders is simply asking for consistent application of the Dutch law.

Dutch Government's Hypocrisy

It would seem Wilders is right about the Koran, and the Dutch enforcement of 'hate speech' laws is very selective, just as 'hate crime' charges are very selectively enforced here in the U.S.. The Koran should be banned everywhere, but for some reason it gets to hide under the umbrellla of a 'religious' text, even though it's merely a psychopathic fantasy devoted to mass murder and genocide, along with it's sister book, Mein Kampf, also a big seller in the ME and other Muslim countries, and this is no mere coincidence.

Donkey_Left · #2 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Good thing we've got books full of love like the Bible to keep our babies safe.

Stapo · #3 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by picaro

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Is Wilders a hypocrite for calling for the banning of the Koran? Is the Koran hate speech?

He's an useless populist, that's all.

He's coming up with stuff like that to catch the votes of idiots and especially as he knows, that nothing gets idots more active, than a populist idiot being tackled by courts.

It's all just simple political tactics/campaigning, but I guess there are some just too naive to understand it.

Disillusioned_1 · #4 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

The old testament and the Talmud will also need to be banned for hate speech.

Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran

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Traditionally, the Talmud is the supreme sourcebook of Law, as it takes the rules listed in the Torah and describes how to apply them to different circumstances.

Take a look at some of these "holy" instructions taken from the Talmud, and make a judgment on whether these philosophies make a positive impact on its followers.

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b.

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30.

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855.

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405.

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b.

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called pigs." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b.

"If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b.

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377.

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." TALMUD: Sanhedrin 74b.

"It is permitted to take the body and life of a gentile." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25.

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425.

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b. "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772.

Vincent. · #5 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by picaro

and they've decided to hold his 'trial' just before the elections early next year in the hopes of keeping him from getting elected, a very sleazy tactic on their part.

Speculation, but if anything, it will put him at the centre of the media again. The place where he thrives.

picaro · #6 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Vincent.

Speculation, but if anything, it will put him at the centre of the media again. The place where he thrives.

While it generates media attention, it keeps him tied down and not able to be out campaigning, which would also put him in the spotlight; I see your point, though, and I still think it is dirty politics on the part of the entrenched major party.

picaro · #7 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Stapo

He's an useless populist, that's all.

He's coming up with stuff like that to catch the votes of idiots and especially as he knows, that nothing gets idots more active, than a populist idiot being tackled by courts.

It's all just simple political tactics/campaigning, but I guess there are some just too naive to understand it.

You don't like populists, Stapo? He's a moderate, not a populist, in any case; I don't think he's getting votes from idiots; he's getting them from people who knows what he's saying is right and are rather tired of European PCness.

picaro · #8 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

Good thing we've got books full of love like the Bible to keep our babies safe.

That's nice. Now you can run along and spam yet another thread with pointless, off-topic non sequiturs. Your usual grand job is done here.

picaro · #9 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

The old testament and the Talmud will also need to be banned for hate speech.

Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran

You and Donkey Kong should start a club.

Vincent. · #10 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by picaro

You don't like populists, Stapo? He's a moderate, not a populist, in any case; I don't think he's getting votes from idiots; he's getting them from people who knows what he's saying is right and are rather tired of European PCness.

He's not a moderate and he is a populist. Not that being a populist is necessarily a bad thing (his 'rising' certainly shows how a part of the population feel), but there's no doubt that he's one.

The polls that have been done (and which I've seen) point to the elderly and the lower educated voting for him.

picaro · #11 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Vincent.

He's not a moderate and he is a populist. Not that being a populist is necessarily a bad thing (his 'rising' certainly shows how a part of the population feel), but there's no doubt that he's one.

I guess he would be by current Dutch standards; he doesn't look like much of one from our view; he merely looks more moderate and centrist.

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The polls that have been done (and which I've seen) point to the elderly and the lower educated voting for him.

'Lower educated' could also mean less indoctrinated and impressed with 'Political Correctness', not a lack of intelligence. Being educated doesn't mean 'smart'. George W. Bush has a Bachelor's degree Master's degree from the top schools in the U.S., one of them the top ranked in the world, for instance, and he's an illiterate, babbling idiot. Lots of morons have degrees; just look at the average 'newscast' on the big networks.

anobsitar · #12 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

The old testament and the Talmud will also need to be banned for hate speech. ...

What has the Koran to do with the Old Testament and the Talmud? Because of 9/11 for example catholic nuns are not any longer allowed to teach children in Baden-Würtemberg, Germany, like they did it for centuries - but I don't remember catholic nuns with machine guns or jewish rabbis with bombs on board of this aeroplanes. Meanwhile I hate all this kinds of absolutely perverted "logic".

The main reason the people in the Netherlands are asking themselve what's going on in the Islam was the murder of Theo van Gogh. The murderer - a Muslim who lived in the third generation in the Netherlands - slaughtered Theo van Gogh with a knife like he would be an animal. It was like a kind of preabrahamatic ritual. In the body they found a knife and a piece of paper with Sura 5:33 of the Koran: The just retribution for those who fight god and his messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.

The politicians Wilders seems not to be a serios person - but there are serios questions in this context.

Vincent. · #13 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by picaro

I guess he would be by current Dutch standards; he doesn't look like much of one from our view; he merely looks more moderate and centrist.

Fair enough,

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Originally Posted by picaro

'Lower educated' could also mean less indoctrinated and impressed with 'Political Correctness', not a lack of intelligence. Being educated doesn't mean 'smart'. George W. Bush has a Bachelor's degree Master's degree from the top schools in the U.S., one of them the top ranked in the world, for instance, and he's an illiterate, babbling idiot. Lots of morons have degrees; just look at the average 'newscast' on the big networks.

I'm not hanging any other label then 'a lower average finished education' to the term "Lower educated". You're right that there are highly educated idiots and very smart uneducated people.

Swoop187 · #14 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left

Good thing we've got books full of love like the Bible to keep our babies safe.

What a pathetic defense of Sharia Law and extremist Islamic ideals.

Last time I checked Christians WERE NOT killing people in the name of God nor have they ever killed people in the name of God.

Only bad people defend bad people and these motherfuckers who marry 6 yearolds, stone woman and embrace honor killings are bad people.

IT also astounds me how its ALWAYS the liberals who are first in line to defend this extreme religion, a religion in which the premise is the exact opposite of what liberals claim they stand for.

Please justify your backwards ass liberal stance.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE DEFENDING SHARIA LAW, SHARIA LAW IS UNETHICAL.