Visit the Archives for U.S. Politics Online -- U.S. Politics Online . net


Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 76

Thread: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

  1. #1
    sami is offline Lieutenant Governor
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    441
    Rep Power
    0

    The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Egypt constructs huge Gaza wall

    Hamas expresses its dismay as Egypt acts to cut Gaza's smuggling routes

    By Ben Lynfield in Jerusalem

    Egypt has reportedly begun building an underground iron wall along its border with the Gaza Strip in a major upgrading of its efforts to end smuggling through tunnels. Egyptian security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed that the wall project is under way. Local residents reported Egyptian clearing work was in progress 90 metres from the border over the last three weeks.


    The Egyptian project comes at the encouragement of the US. After Israel's devastating Operation Cast Lead in Gaza last winter, Washington took the lead in encouraging international efforts to stop smuggling of weaponry into the Strip through the tunnels. Israeli defence officials say that the Qassam rockets that struck Israeli targets before and during the Gaza war came from Egypt via the tunnels.

    But the underground links also form a vital lifeline for the passage of everyday necessities in the face of a draconian Israeli blockade of the Strip that has at times gone so far as to bar the import of pasta into the coastal enclave.

    According to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, the wall will be 9-10km long and will be sunk 20-30m into the ground. It is supposed to be impenetrable and impossible to melt. It is not expected to halt smuggling completely, but to cut hundreds of existing tunnels and force diggers to go deeper than they have gone before.

    Leaders of Hamas, the Islamist movement that rules the Gaza Strip, are believed to have been greatly dismayed by Egypt's willingness to implement the project while the Israeli blockade continues and while Egypt keeps its own crossing with the Strip closed. But last night they declined to put their feelings on record, apparently wary of further antagonising Cairo, which is already angry over Hamas's refusal to sign an Egyptian-brokered national reconciliation deal with the rival Fatah movement.

    But Hassan Khreisheh, an independent nationalist in the West Bank who is deputy speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, described the project as "a shame for the Egyptians".

    "They talk of supporting the Palestinians while they co-operate with others in imposing the siege and preventing food and supplies from reaching Gaza," Mr Khreisheh said. "They are collaborating with the Americans."

    Abdullah Abdullah, a legislator who supports Mahmoud Abbas, the moderate Palestinian President, voiced understanding for the Egyptian move. "We can't deny Egypt's right to protect its sovereignty and people against intrusion. At the same time we want the Egyptians not to deny the Palestinians their means of livelihood."

    Egypt is wary of Hamas because it is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, the long-established transnational movement that supports the creation of an Islamic state in Egypt and which has long been a thorn in the flesh of President Mubarak. Cairo was criticised both before and during the war for allegedly providing diplomatic cover for Israel.

    Mark Regev, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said: "I cannot confirm what the Egyptians are doing and not doing. But I can say over the last two months the Egyptians have been enhancing their anti-smuggling efforts. We welcome that."
    Egypt constructs huge Gaza wall - Middle East, World - The Independent

    This Gaza wall is now a very debated topic within the moderates and the radicals. The tunnels have been used to smuggle food, goods, and weaponary. The Gaza smugglers have put taxes on smuggled goods, like milk and rice. Egypt have been defending its soverign right to protect its borders, whereas Hamas argue that the Wall purpose is to protect Israel and starve Gaza people. They have call it "the Wall of hatred". Hezbollah Chief Nesrallah have spend hours in his Ashura day speech critiszing this wall. There are a very high criticism toward Egypt from Arab street.

    I have mixed feelings. I think this wall violates internatioal law, unethical, and only would make the economic blockage and food insecurity situation in Gaza worse. It would also stop the rockets smuggling problem, but an Israeli official mentioned that Hamas have developed different weaponary. Why dont Egypt fully allow foods and goods to be transfered through borders? Egypts has its right to protect its borders, but needs a more clear border policy that define what goods are allowed to be transfered, and easy cross-border movements for Gazans, who have families and relatives across the border.

    Israel is actually not punishing Hamas, it is punishing Gaza people.

    Egypt is between two evils. Israel insists on Egypt to be the "borders police", and Israel actually are controling the other side of the borders, in what is called the Philadelphia road. Also, Hamas is seeking to damage Egypt's image similar to the way they embarrased egypt's gov't in 2008.


    This article is publish by a pro-hamas writer in a Alquds newspaper, which is widely read in Gaza. It would give an idea on Hamas's Anti-Wall campaign toward Egypt.

    The wall of hatred in Gaza

    Egypt remains silent on the news that an 18 metre deep, 11 kilometre long steel wall is being constructed on its border with the Gaza Strip. This fellow Arab country is leaving the justification of this illegal and immoral act to Jeffrey Feltman, US Assistant Secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs.

    The wall, composed of interlocking parts, has been designed and built in the US and is being constructed with the help of US army engineers. It is considered fire and bomb-proof and cannot be cut or melted. It is intended to close off the tunnels built by the besieged sons of Gaza with their own bare hands and prevent the smuggling of goods required for basic survival (food and materials for reconstructing the homes destroyed by Israeli forces) in the open air prison that is Gaza.

    One and a half million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are facing genocide by imprisonment, starvation and deprivation, carried out by the Israeli government with the backing of the US administration and the complicity of, not only the Egyptian but all, Arab leaders.

    Assistant Secretary Feltman claimed that the Egyptians were entitled to build the wall since it is in their territory and reports suggest the move follows an agreement signed by Condoleezza Rice, former Secretary of State, and her then Israeli counterpart, Tzipi Livni, during the Israeli aggression on Gaza Strip late last year and early this year.

    Witnesses in the town of Rafah say that work was well under way, and that half of the project has already been completed.

    The Egyptian newspaper, 'The Republic', yesterday fiercely defended the construction of the wall as a 'sovereign right' exercised by Cairo to secure its borders. The newspaper claimed the move was merely strengthening the foundations of the existing wall by re-inforcing the foundations with steel plates, a method applied to skyscrapers the world over.

    Using tactics honed in Nazi Germany, the Israelis are turning the Gaza Strip into a large prison camp in preparation for burning its children in the fire of a new invasion. This is at the instigation of their rabbis who issued a recent fatwa that all existing Palestinian prisoners should be slaughtered in the event of the death of soldier Gilad Shalit.

    But we must not forget that this collusion is the work of the Egyptian governmen not the Egyptian people. It is designed to please the US administration and offer evidence of its willingness to participate in the 'war on terror'. But Egypt can expect nothing in return from America except more humiliation and scorn.

    If the Egyptian government is hoping to exert pressure on Hamas towards reconciliation with Abbas (who has endorsed the construction of the wall) and the Palestinian Authority, the move will spectacularly backfire. This wall will ignite anger in the hearts of anyone with a conscience throughout the whole world.

    How ironic it is that Arab, Muslim and Western activists in Britain succeeded in instigating a warrant for the arrest of Tzipi Livni on charges of War Crimes during the Gaza offensive whilst she is meanwhile at liberty to visit Egypt whenever she wishes without any such concerns.

    The Egyptian regime, in order to portray Israel as a friend and enhance its own security and stability, wants to turn Gaza's hungry, trapped, people into the enemies of Egypt and its people. But Gazans and the legitimate Palestinian resistance have strong blood ties with the Egyptians on the other side of the border, many are closely related.

    Egypt is becoming Israel's whipping boy not only against the Palestinians who are exercising their right of legitimate resistance to regain their usurped rights, but also against impoverished and desperate Africans from the South of their borders who are attempting to cross into occupied Palestine in search of asylum.

    The sons of Gaza Strip can not threaten the security of Egypt and the Egyptian people respect the thousands of martyrs who gave victory to their cause, and does not want the people of Gaza surviving by smuggling and tunnels. They long to see a proper, legitimate border crossing, under Egyptian jurisdiction, a normal border like those found where two territories meet the world over.

    But the Egyptian regime, instead, imposes a blockade on their neighbours and is proud to confiscate bags of cement or cans of milk, or even an aged cow on its way to the poor and landless Gazans, as happened on the occasion of Eid al-Adha.

    When Palestinians stormed the Rafah wall in the uprising of hunger, in January 2008, they did not commit any wrongdoing on the other side of the border, they did not steal a single loaf of bread despite their hunger, but acted in a civilized manner. Unlike, one could add, the sons of San Francisco and Los Angeles who took to looting during the riots there.

    The Egyptian regime's apparent hatred for the people of the Gaza Strip and its bias to the Israeli side is beyond comprehension. Why should it not side with its fellow Arabs, who are oppressed, beseiged and starved and who have done them no harm at all?

    We are confident of two things: the Egyptian people, with their keen sense of justice, will never accept the wall of hatred and humiliation that its government is building on its border with the Gaza Strip; the second is that the sons of Gaza, with their strong instinct for survival and their decades of resistance, will not lack the resourcefulness to overcome this wall.

    Those who were able to develop home-made rockets that could reach into Israel, those who took a white donkey and turned it into a zebra with stripes of black dye simply to bring a smile of joy to the lips of their children on a holiday visit to the miserable and depleted Gaza Zoo, will find their ways to breech this wall. And even if starvation takes them in this genocide they will remain standing as long as they are able, their heads held high.
    Last edited by sami; 01-01-2010 at 05:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Commodore's Avatar
    Commodore is offline Vice President
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Upstate New York, USA
    Posts
    7,941
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Finally.

    One day they might figure out they can't eat rockets.

  3. #3
    Steerpike's Avatar
    Steerpike is offline Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western Hemisphere
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Egypt has the right to build structures within their own borders. So long as they do not violate any other borders with their wall, they have a right to build it.

    If the Gaza population needs supplies, then trade agreements may be in their best interest. The wall appears to be meant to curtail smuggling, not legitimate trade.
    "Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

    "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

    "Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

  4. #4
    Imperator's Avatar
    Imperator is offline President
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    null
    Posts
    26,153
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    Egypt has the right to build structures within their own borders. So long as they do not violate any other borders with their wall, they have a right to build it.

    If the Gaza population needs supplies, then trade agreements may be in their best interest. The wall appears to be meant to curtail smuggling, not legitimate trade.
    agreed.

  5. #5
    sami is offline Lieutenant Governor
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    441
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    Egypt has the right to build structures within their own borders. So long as they do not violate any other borders with their wall, they have a right to build it.

    If the Gaza population needs supplies, then trade agreements may be in their best interest. The wall appears to be meant to curtail smuggling, not legitimate trade.
    But it violates international law. Egypt and Israel's restrictions of fuel and electricity supplies to the Gaza, as well as the prolonged closures of border crossings for people and goods, including humanitarian aid, constitute collective punishment, which is prohibited under Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Unlawful and disproportionate reprisals violate international humanitarian law and can not be considered means of self-defense.

    Food and goods are not being transfered fully through borders, the only way to get those goods is by smuggling. Thats where the criticism is coming from.Egypt needs a define border policy.

    Also, Egypt claims that its protecting its borders from Gazans, but they are not doing the same with Israelis in Sinai, who can move freely. Egypt border police have been shooting Africans illegal immigrant to Israel, and fully closing the border with Gaza, which used to be an Egyptian territory and have famlilies who lies in between the border. Whereas there have been some incident in which Israelis crossed borders, and Egypt just returned them to Israel. This wall is not built to protect Egypt borders.

  6. #6
    Imperator's Avatar
    Imperator is offline President
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    null
    Posts
    26,153
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    it surprises you that Israel and Egypt cooperate? They have made their peace long ago and have decided that the common enemy now is extremism/terrorism, a brand that hamas etc. follows and employs.

  7. #7
    sami is offline Lieutenant Governor
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    441
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
    it surprises you that Israel and Egypt cooperate? They have made their peace long ago and have decided that the common enemy now is extremism/terrorism, a brand that hamas etc. follows and employs.
    But Egyptian govt claims its being built to protect its borders, which is not the purpose of the Wall. They didnt mention protecting Israel, or cooperating against a common enemy of terrorism and extremism.

  8. #8
    Commodore's Avatar
    Commodore is offline Vice President
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Upstate New York, USA
    Posts
    7,941
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    But it violates international law. Egypt and Israel's restrictions of fuel and electricity supplies to the Gaza, as well as the prolonged closures of border crossings for people and goods, including humanitarian aid, constitute collective punishment, which is prohibited under Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Unlawful and disproportionate reprisals violate international humanitarian law and can not be considered means of self-defense.
    If Gaza wishes statehood, no one else owes it anything.

  9. #9
    Imperator's Avatar
    Imperator is offline President
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    null
    Posts
    26,153
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    But Egyptian govt claims its being built to protect its borders, which is not the purpose of the Wall. They didnt mention protecting Israel, or cooperating against a common enemy of terrorism and extremism.
    I think you may want to check that. hamas has operatives in Egypt and they are making noise. I am no lover of the mubarak regime, only pointing out that they cooperate. Egypt doesn't want fundies and terrorists ala hamas offshoots messing in their patch. I suspect a lot of back channel commo. between Israel and Egypt goes on all the time. They both have a common enemy.

    Egypt is not the only ME country that wants little to do with hamas et al. For all the propaganda ala pan-arab brotherhood, they like Jordan, Syria etc. don’t want Palestinians either.

  10. #10
    Sunshine's Avatar
    Sunshine is offline President
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hopewell
    Posts
    11,616
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    This isn't about any legitimate traffic like food and supplies. It is about smuggling. It isn't generally necessary to smuggle food and supplies. Egypt has the right to secure her borders. the US should take a lesson, here.

  11. #11
    Sunshine's Avatar
    Sunshine is offline President
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hopewell
    Posts
    11,616
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    But it violates international law. Egypt and Israel's restrictions of fuel and electricity supplies to the Gaza, as well as the prolonged closures of border crossings for people and goods, including humanitarian aid, constitute collective punishment, which is prohibited under Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Unlawful and disproportionate reprisals violate international humanitarian law and can not be considered means of self-defense.

    Food and goods are not being transfered fully through borders, the only way to get those goods is by smuggling. Thats where the criticism is coming from.Egypt needs a define border policy.

    Also, Egypt claims that its protecting its borders from Gazans, but they are not doing the same with Israelis in Sinai, who can move freely. Egypt border police have been shooting Africans illegal immigrant to Israel, and fully closing the border with Gaza, which used to be an Egyptian territory and have famlilies who lies in between the border. Whereas there have been some incident in which Israelis crossed borders, and Egypt just returned them to Israel. This wall is not built to protect Egypt borders.

    So you are of the opinion that the purpose of the Geneva Convention is to facilitate terrorism. Classic.

  12. #12
    Pogo's Avatar
    Pogo is offline Secretary of State
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    5,961
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    So you are of the opinion that the purpose of the Geneva Convention is to facilitate terrorism. Classic.
    Israel doesn't abide by international law so why should it's victims?
    ...If you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.

    Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England, 1927

  13. #13
    Steerpike's Avatar
    Steerpike is offline Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western Hemisphere
    Posts
    1,357
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    But it violates international law. Egypt and Israel's restrictions of fuel and electricity supplies to the Gaza, as well as the prolonged closures of border crossings for people and goods, including humanitarian aid, constitute collective punishment, which is prohibited under Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Unlawful and disproportionate reprisals violate international humanitarian law and can not be considered means of self-defense.

    Food and goods are not being transfered fully through borders, the only way to get those goods is by smuggling. Thats where the criticism is coming from.Egypt needs a define border policy.

    Also, Egypt claims that its protecting its borders from Gazans, but they are not doing the same with Israelis in Sinai, who can move freely. Egypt border police have been shooting Africans illegal immigrant to Israel, and fully closing the border with Gaza, which used to be an Egyptian territory and have famlilies who lies in between the border. Whereas there have been some incident in which Israelis crossed borders, and Egypt just returned them to Israel. This wall is not built to protect Egypt borders.
    What part of my post which you quoted would you say is incorrect?

    The Fourth Geneva Convention (Full Text)


    Quote Originally Posted by Fourth Geneva Convention Article 33
    Art. 33. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.




    Pillage is prohibited.




    Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.

    It is not a punishment, it is a wall. The wall is not pillaging nor is it a reprisal against "protected persons and their property."

    If the Palestinians want to be regarded as a legitimate state, then the Palestinians ought to act as a legitimate state. If the Palestinians ought to act as a legitimate state, then the Palestinians ought to address their needs in a legitimate fashion as a state. If the Palestinians ought to address their needs in legitimate fashion as a state and they need food and supplies, then the Palestinians ought to acquire those needed food and supplies as a state would do so by making legitimate agreements and honoring them. Therefore, if the Palestinians want to be regarded as a legitimate state, then the Palestinians ought to acquire those needed food and supplies as a state would do so by making legitimate agreements and honoring them.
    Last edited by Steerpike; 01-02-2010 at 05:48 AM.
    "Justice is the first virtue of social institutions, as truth is of systems of thought." - John Rawls

    "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves. " - Lord Byron

    "Knowledge makes men gentle, and reason inclines toward humanity; only prejudices cause these to be renounced." - Montesquieu

  14. #14
    Sunshine's Avatar
    Sunshine is offline President
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hopewell
    Posts
    11,616
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
    Israel doesn't abide by international law so why should it's victims?
    How many times on discussion boards has someone cited the old platitude, 'two wrongs don't make a right.'

    It seems that you too believe the Geneva Convention is about promoting terrorism.

  15. #15
    Donkey_Left's Avatar
    Donkey_Left is offline President
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Tierra Querida
    Posts
    24,880
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: The Egyptian Wall and Gaza blockade

    Egypt not giving a shit about the Palestinians isn't really anything new.
    First they came for the mimes, and I did not speak out, because I was a mime.

Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Obama administration's reaction to the Egyptian situation
    By eohrnberger in forum International Politics
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 02-14-2011, 06:06 AM
  2. I admire the Egyptian people.
    By chassisman in forum International Politics
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 02-12-2011, 09:20 AM
  3. Egyptian protester shot on the street in Alexandria.
    By Sunshine in forum International Politics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-10-2011, 08:10 PM
  4. Bound for Gaza
    By Voland in forum International Politics
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 06-22-2010, 10:36 PM
  5. Abbas opposed lifting the Gaza naval blockade
    By Hafke in forum International Politics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 03:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •