Thread: Israeli navy opens fire on international aid convoy for Gaza : At least ten dead

Originally Posted by Renton

How would others here with military knowledge have planned this differently, or did Israel get it right?

I agree with you on the water hoses.

If I had been sending those guys down those ropes there wouldn't have been a single swinging dick on that deck waiting for them.

There would have been "humanitarians" getting blasted off the deck by water cannon, others huddling in the corners choking their lungs out from CS (tear gas), and everyone scrambling from the flash/bangs that would have been raining out of those helicopters.

Once I saw those ropes getting shaken I would have ordered the decks to be swept by mini-guns.

Originally Posted by Vincent

Both parties picked option 3. Saying Israel is blameless is as stupid as saying that the protesters are blameless.

In this case the only think Israel is guilty of is being too restrained.

Originally Posted by soot

I agree with you on the water hoses.

If I had been sending those guys down those ropes there wouldn't have been a single swinging dick on that deck waiting for them.

There would have been "humanitarians" getting blasted off the deck by water cannon, others huddling in the corners choking their lungs out from CS (tear gas), and everyone scrambling from the flash/bangs that would have been raining out of those helicopters.

Once I saw those ropes getting shaken I would have ordered the decks to be swept by mini-guns.

I like the way you operate. You can be my wingman any time.

Originally Posted by Imperator

well, mission accomplished. Good job greta berlin and ilk:rolleyes:



Israeli blockade of Gaza unsustainable: White House


We are working urgently with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and other international partners to develop new procedures for delivering more goods and assistance to Gaza,” said Mike Hammer, spokesman for the White House National Security Council.

“The current arrangements are unsustainable and must be changed. For now, we call on all parties to join us in encouraging responsible decisions by all sides to avoid any unnecessary confrontations,” Hammer said in a statement…

“It remains a U.S. priority to provide assistance to the people of Gaza,” Hammer said.

“In the interest of the safety of all involved, and the safe transmission of assistance to the people of Gaza, we strongly encourage those on board the Rachel Corrie and other vessels to sail to Ashdod to deliver their materials to Gaza,” he said, referring to the Israeli port.

Israeli blockade of Gaza unsustainable: White House | Reuters

The current arrangements are definitely unsustainable. Also for Israel. Even if you leave the humanitarian aspect completely out of this the blocade has not achieved its goals after three/four years. Hamas is still in the saddle, Gilad Schalit is still beeing kept prisoner in some hole in Gaza and the blocade continues to alienate the partners and allies that Israel has left. Turkey cutting ties to a minimum as they said, including intelligence cooperation, business deals worth billions and israeli weapon deliveries WILL hurt Israel, and the diplomatic fallout with Europe probably needs some time to be fully seen but it will certainly be serious.
If Israel wishes to truly disengage then that is another question, but the blocade has to be reviewed even for purely israeli reasons. The idiocy of confusing an international aid shipment with the spanish armada is only a last straw.
Anyway, Egypt seems to have ended the blocade for its part under arab pressure. The Rafah crossing is open and its said to remain open.

Turkish forensics claim that all except one of nine dead turkish activist were shot multiple times, and some in the BACK. How do you shoot somebody in the back in "self-defence" ( of course under the premise that these reports turn out to be true) ?


Report: Autopsy shows Gaza activists were shot 30 times - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Originally Posted by reality

Well you could water cannon them. or flashbang them. ANd the "martyrs" could simply do nothing and make the israelis look worse than the cops during the american civil rights movement. Game set match again for hamas.

Again, they aren't cops. theyre soldiers. soldiers generally don't go into battle equipped with nonlethal weaponry, the IDF especially (they cost too much and are pretty much ineffective on a guy hell bent on blowing himself up).

They wouldn't look half as bad as having killed/criticaly wounded them...pyrrhic victory to Hamas only.

...and generally not, but their objective here wasn't to enter battle (Plan A), but to be prepared if one broke out (Plan B)

Originally Posted by reality

They ("protesters" upon whom lays the lionshare of the blame for this fuck up imo) had 3 options:
1: do nothing, send no ships don't run a blockade etc.
2: send the ship and pull over when asked. the aid gets there, eventually, and no one gets shot or stabbed.
3: send the ship and "try to make a statement" by trying to run the blockade. this puts them squarely on the IDF's short list and then to add to the debacle they've let some wanna be martyrs in on the mission and these martyrs stir up a large mob and get alot of people hurt or killed.

As you can see they picked option 3.

1: as far as they and many in the international community are concerned the blockade is illegal...and good men don't stand by ildly when bad men do bad deeds (their belief)

2: pull over when asked, part of the aid gets there after Israel rations it, ending up with no nett gain in what gets through and in fact reducing the Israeli quota contribution (their belief)

3: exactly what happened, predictable, and Israel obliged

Originally Posted by Imperator

well, mission accomplished. Good job greta berlin and ilk:rolleyes:



Israeli blockade of Gaza unsustainable: White House


We are working urgently with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and other international partners to develop new procedures for delivering more goods and assistance to Gaza,” said Mike Hammer, spokesman for the White House National Security Council.

“The current arrangements are unsustainable and must be changed. For now, we call on all parties to join us in encouraging responsible decisions by all sides to avoid any unnecessary confrontations,” Hammer said in a statement…

“It remains a U.S. priority to provide assistance to the people of Gaza,” Hammer said.

“In the interest of the safety of all involved, and the safe transmission of assistance to the people of Gaza, we strongly encourage those on board the Rachel Corrie and other vessels to sail to Ashdod to deliver their materials to Gaza,” he said, referring to the Israeli port.

Israeli blockade of Gaza unsustainable: White House | Reuters

Mike hammer!!!...is his name really Mike Hammer

Originally Posted by soot

I agree with you on the water hoses.

If I had been sending those guys down those ropes there wouldn't have been a single swinging dick on that deck waiting for them.

There would have been "humanitarians" getting blasted off the deck by water cannon, others huddling in the corners choking their lungs out from CS (tear gas), and everyone scrambling from the flash/bangs that would have been raining out of those helicopters.

Once I saw those ropes getting shaken I would have ordered the decks to be swept by mini-guns.

I think there are some reports that they did use flash grenades thrown from the chopper...but they seem to have bounced over board

Originally Posted by Voland

Turkish forensics claim that all except one of nine dead turkish activist were shot multiple times, and some in the BACK. How do you shoot somebody in the back in "self-defence" ( of course under the premise that these reports turn out to be true) ?


Report: Autopsy shows Gaza activists were shot 30 times - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Thanks for the link...according to this, if correct, 57 people in total shot in self defence...thank goodness they where restrained

Just looking at the news just now...the Rachel Corrie is refusing to heave too.

No matter what happens with the Corrie, from this point onwards, more and more ships, and more frequently, will attempt to reach Gaza with aid...

Originally Posted by Voland

Hamas is still in the saddle.

Historically, when 'sieges' occur, those in charge or manning the walls get first dibs on food and water...those pulling the strings in Gaza probably aren't going without, the general populace will be...Hamas in general will not be greatly suffering

Sky News reporting Turkish PM to travel to Gaza in an aid flotilla whose passage is to be guaranteed by the Turkish Navy (reports out of Lebanon).

also...no problems when Israeli Navy boards Rachel Corrie