Thread: Israeli navy opens fire on international aid convoy for Gaza : At least ten dead

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Really? All the video evidence shows otherwise. Like I said, it's documented fact, on video, that the commandos started out with non-lethal force. I saw it for myself when I viewed a soldier pull out a paintball gun and this was after his buddies were swarmed under and were being beat to death.

cheers!

As to video "evidence" : Any human "interaction" , also fights, have a pre-and and an after-story. What we are seeing on youtube is a certain sequence of a longer story presented to us by the isreli army press departement to support THEIR version. I´d like to know more about the chain of events that predates the videotakes, before I accept that there can be nothing more to the story. Israel has confiscated ALL Journalists equipment after all, and made sure that the IDF is the only source of video-coverage. Why if there is nothing to hide ?
And why should the soldiers not be questioned if all they could have to tell is the official version of events ?
Having worked in a press departement myself I know from my own experience that simply accepting press releases by a concerned party in a dispute as facts requires a certain level of naivety. ( I would urge exactly the same caution were the source a palestinian one)

Israeli navy officers have slammed Israels diplomatic and military failure during and after the operation, slammed the governement for putting the blame on the activists instead of assessing the situation properly, and called for an investigation by an external body :

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...probe-1.294536

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Yup - this is how wars start.....

If Iran either directly or indirectly confronts Israel militarily, the US is going to have to take a position. Have heard little from the WH to this point regarding the Gaza situation in general...



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Originally Posted by Voland

As to video "evidence" : Any human "interaction" , also fights, have a pre-and and an after-story. What we are seeing on youtube is a certain sequence of a longer story presented to us by the isreli army press departement to support THEIR version. I´d like to know more about the chain of events that predates the videotakes, before I accept that there can be nothing more to the story. Israel has confiscated ALL Journalists equipment after all, and made sure that the IDF is the only source of video-coverage. Why if there is nothing to hide ?
And why should the soldiers not be questioned if all they could have to tell is the official version of events ?
Having worked in a press departement myself I know from my own experience that simply accepting press releases by a concerned party in a dispute as facts requires a certain level of naivety. ( I would urge exactly the same caution were the source a palestinian one)

Israeli navy officers have slammed Israels diplomatic and military failure during and after the operation, slammed the governement for putting the blame on the activists instead of assessing the situation properly, and called for an investigation by an external body :

Israel Navy reserves officers: Allow external Gaza flotilla probe - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

a question voland; do you believe that there were passengers of the blue Marmara that had an agenda, that is they were there for other than just to get some supplies to gaza?

Originally Posted by Imperator

this is turning into theatre of the absurd.

I couldn't have put it better...do Al-Qaeda and the Taliban have navy's too?

Originally Posted by Voland

Israeli navy officers have slammed Israels diplomatic and military failure during and after the operation, slammed the governement for putting the blame on the activists instead of assessing the situation properly, and called for an investigation by an external body :

Israel Navy reserves officers: Allow external Gaza flotilla probe - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Thanks for this link... agree by and large with the officers...the troops were put into a no win situation with no escape stragtegy if things went wrong.

...did you follow the link at the bottom regarding the new photos?...they seem to show photos, deleted by Israel, from memory cards but recovered by experts of wounded IDF soldiers being helped from the fighting and being treated for their injuries by the peace activists below decks

found this...trying to get to the Turk paper to see them for myself, I don't think they are online (?)...




Pics of beaten commandos published
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND YAAKOV KATZ
06/06/2010 10:34

Turkey’s top daily, Hurriet on Sunday published pictures of Shayetet 13 soldiers – helpless, possibly unconscious, badly beaten and bloodied.

The paper claimed these images were censored by Israel by being deleted from memory-cards when the activists’ cameras were in Israeli hands.

IDF spokesperson said the images, difficult though they are to watch, prove the claims made by IDF soldiers that they fired only because their lives were in danger, those aboard wnated to take Israeli lives. This proves the restraint with which the soldiers acted, the IDF said, the pictures could have been prevented, but because the Shayetet 13 warriors were aware of the sensitivity of the situation and were most careful to distinguish between peace activists and fighters, they came to harm.

The images, of soldiers dragged along the floor, down staircases and of fighters with iron bars guarding a cabin door, seem actually to corroborate the IDF reports that the soldiers were attacked, and were in danger of being held as hostages. Charges denied by flotilla organizers.


Pics of beaten commandos published

whoops, got it through an intermediate site.


here ya go.

Ýsrail'in sildiði Fotoðraflar / 1 - Hürriyet

Originally Posted by Imperator

whoops, got it through an intermediate site.


here ya go.

Ýsrail'in sildiði Fotoðraflar / 1 - Hürriyet

...much better quality of pictures than the other link..cheers

Originally Posted by stillalive

Nope no such vids.

All one can see is bars going down on someone or something hidden behind a plank.

No vids of "encircled" IDF personnel either.

And no IDF soldier was thrown over board, one landed on the deck below.

Though tje Turks claim, there are still persons missing,so if someone WAS thrown overboard, it must have been the missing passengers of the ship.

The first time I looked through tje vids I made the same mistake you obviously make, I let myself be fooled by emotions.

I´ve checked all the material now and I have not found a single instance where a IDF soldier was actually hit.

I did see some objects swinging around, but definitely not a single one striking an IDF soldier.

Now all Israel presented was an interview on TV, showing one guy (the one who claims to have used only a paint gun) with a small band aid on his temple and a minor bruise on his right cheek.

I am almost sure, that had there really been major injuries, Israel would not have hesitated for a second to publish them.

Iron bar brake bones. So, where are the wounded IDF guys ?

In Israel we did see interviews of the wounded soldiers on TV. I guess in most countries they showed mostly the peace activists being interviewed.

But it took me about a minute to find this on youtube:

Interview with wounded IDF soldier with broken arm

You can clearly see a soldier with a deep wound to the face:

Footage from the Mavi Marmara Including Injured Soldiers and Items Found On Board

Also: 'Peace activist' stabbing IDF soldier with a knife.

More photos are sure to follow. But as with all such things, it takes time.

oh dude, thats so fake, anyone can put a sling on...get real.....:rolleyes:

Don't know what to make of these photos...could be helping them, could be draging them below deck as hostages...no doubt though that these guys are a mess

Originally Posted by Imperator

oh dude, thats so fake, anyone can put a sling on...get real.....:rolleyes:

I suppose the deep gash in the soldier's face in that second video I posted is also just hollywood makeup...

Footage from the Mavi Marmara Including Injured Soldiers and Items Found On Board

Originally Posted by Renton

I couldn't have put it better...do Al-Qaeda and the Taliban have navy's too?

well, keep it to yourself but I used to be a waiter at the Cheney Fuhrer bunker....a well connected patron who like arab sweet meats with his freedom frys sent this to me. Bin Laden in disguise making landfall in Florida......they scuttled the other 3 of their fleet when they heard we were on to them.