Thread: Israeli navy opens fire on international aid convoy for Gaza : At least ten dead

Originally Posted by kwilliam10

Well... Maybe so...but even in your country, the use of force (no matter how justifiable) against the state police nearly ALWAYS begets the return of force. You may be "just" .....but no way should you be surprised. Neither, I suspect, were these "humanitarians."

I doubt they were surprised. Sure, they took a risk in reacting to the invasion -you may even call it stupid- but not reacting at all to abuse by authorities is a much worse option in the long run. That is also a lesson of history.

From what I've read, it looks like the "peace protestors" were being violently pacifistic after the IDF attempted to stop ships from running the blockage that was established to prevent Hamas from getting weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12K...layer_embedded

On the issue of enforcing a blockade in international waters... I found this interesting: for a blockade to be legal under international customary and treaty law, it has to be effective, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. blockade (warfare) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Enforcing it within a certain distance of the blockaded nation or on the high seas seems to be a hazy issue under international law, subject to the political and military realities of the times (like much IL it seems). By taking this action to continue to effectively blockade Gaza, the Israelis are apparently bolstering their claim to its legality, while others might use the incident of violence to an aid convoy to argue its illegality.

Originally Posted by adaher

No shit they resisted. As far as I know, they were still in international waters - which means Israel had no legal right to attack and kill these people.

They had the right to board, and a blockade does not have to wait until Gaza's territorial waters are reached. If there is intent to go to the prohibited area, then those enforcing the blockade have the right to demand the boats stop, and the right to board.

This is exactly how we enforced the blockade against Iraq, and exactly how the British enforced every blockade they ever put up.

Based on which treaty, or other international legal basis?
Thanks for the info already in advance.

Like every massacre Israel commits, the international community would only express negative comments, only words, no action. same with Dubai assasination, gaza war, etc

This is an act of war. Turkey have the right of rataliation.

For the Arab world, any hope of a peace process with this government is going to evaporate. If they are going to react to this simple issue of humanitarian supply this way, the message is very clear.

Arabs should drop the negotiations option and find alternative ways of resistance.

Originally Posted by Luap

On the issue of enforcing a blockade in international waters... I found this interesting: for a blockade to be legal under international customary and treaty law, it has to be effective, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. blockade (warfare) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Enforcing it within a certain distance of the blockaded nation or on the high seas seems to be a hazy issue under international law, subject to the political and military realities of the times (like much IL it seems). By taking this action to continue to effectively blockade Gaza, the Israelis are apparently bolstering their claim to its legality, while others might use the incident of violence to an aid convoy to argue its illegality.

you're right that is ambiguous, but apparently, there is no doubt that, Israel has had an ongoing blockade, and it doesn't appear as if they have been selective.

the violence has to be taken as a separate issue inho.

The ambiguity ala neutral ships may not be destroyed, sure, but in the act of intercepting them if violence is perpetrated by the ship members..what then?

The only way of determining neutrality aside from a neutral flag and ones word is to inspect the ships/cargo.

there is a in situ blockade, we all know this. Far better if they had asked Israel to come to their departing port and inspect the ships/cargo before leaving, that would have put Israel in a spot. They could have volunteered to deliver the supplies themselves etc...and on and on.

Originally Posted by sami

Like every massacre Israel commits, the international community would only express negative comments, only words, no action. same with Dubai assasination, gaza war, etc

This is an act of war. Turkey have the right of rataliation.

For the Arab world, any hope of a peace process with this government is going to evaporate. If they are going to react to this simple issue of humanitarian supply this way, the message is very clear.

Arabs should drop the negotiations option and find alternative ways of resistance.

Similarly, for every Palestinian rocket attack that kills a helpless child, and every suicide bomber that kills women and kids, the international community sits by and wrings it's hands.

There are no good guys or bad guys there now - it's all just mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence.

Matt

Originally Posted by sami

Like every massacre Israel commits, the international community would only express negative comments, only words, no action. same with Dubai assasination, gaza war, etc

one can substitute almost any country for "Isreal" in the above emphasis which is mine.


I don't think this measures up to a "massacre" btw.

This is an act of war. Turkey have the right of rataliation.

uhm sorry not quite, in fact not even close.

For the Arab world, any hope of a peace process with this government is going to evaporate. If they are going to react to this simple issue of humanitarian supply this way, the message is very clear.

well if they are, as you appear to be as predisposed to condemnation and dropping any pretenses for a real peace process, then sure they may.

Arabs should drop the negotiations option and find alternative ways of resistance.

I see. Apparently they have found other forms of resistance aside from conventional ones, that's one of the problems.

you are of course just advocating more of the same that leads to events like this.

Not to defend anything here - Israeli military doesn't exactly have a clean record, but I read two reports that one of the ships refused to stop for inspection..one report said they fired weapons (unclear if they were firing in the air or at Israeli military).
And in typical Israel fashion - shoot first ask questions later is what commenced after that.
On one hand why the hell would they not stop for Israeli military when not doing so is suicide as proved 1000 times, and why once again does Israel overreact?

There will never be peace here.

Before the ships set sail from waters off the east Mediterranean island of Cyprus on Sunday, Israel had urged the flotilla not to try to breach the blockade and offered to transfer the cargo to Gaza from an Israeli port, following a security inspection.

FOXNews.com - Israeli Officials Claim Aid Flotilla Had Ties to Al Qaeda, PM Gives Military 'Full Support'

So they were warned, and the Israelis actually offered an alternative solution.

Fuck 'em.

They were stupid...

Originally Posted by MattInFla

Similarly, for every Palestinian rocket attack that kills a helpless child, and every suicide bomber that kills women and kids, the international community sits by and wrings it's hands.

There are no good guys or bad guys there now - it's all just mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence.

Matt

wait, didnt U.S. finance the Egyptian tunnels Wall?. that is not words.

Originally Posted by sami

wait, didnt U.S. finance the Egyptian tunnels Wall?. that is not words.

Sorry, this post does not make sense.

Originally Posted by Steve

FOXNews.com - Israeli Officials Claim Aid Flotilla Had Ties to Al Qaeda, PM Gives Military 'Full Support'

So they were warned, and the Israelis actually offered an alternative solution.

Fuck 'em.

They were stupid...

As a point of order this is also in more reports than Fox (to avoid the thread becoming infiltrated with "Faux News" zombies)
At the same time it doesn't excuse Israel from over-reacting.

Once again however, I find myself wondering if Pro-Palestinian militants did this on purpose...it is not just possible, but even probable.