May their children forgive us.
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“Are vital U.S. interests more imperiled by what happens in Iraq where were have 50,000 troops, or Afghanistan where we have 100,000, or South Korea where we have 28,000 -- or by what is happening on our border with Mexico?...What does it profit America if we save Anbar and lose Arizona?”
May their children forgive us.
"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Last edited by Donahue; 03-15-2011 at 06:30 PM.
There is an infinite number of conflicts and social injustices going on in this world and we simply don't have the money or manpower to get involved in every single one. I don't see anything immoral about picking and choosing where we intervene on what best helps us.
Isn't doing what's best for us the point of forming separate governments?
Of course it's about freeing people but it's not all about freeing people. We have limited expenses and personnel and our actions have consequences, so we're forced to pick and choose our battles. We have to draw the line some place and our interests seems as good as any to draw it. I have a difficult time believing any government we've had in this country wouldn't choose to liberate everyone on the planet if it were actually possible but it's not.
Last edited by Donahue; 03-15-2011 at 06:21 PM. Reason: STUPID FINGERS
Obama has failed. He had a chance to act but not knowing what to do,
afraid to do anything when knowing nothing, he erases concern in his mind by playing golf and playing with the NCAA Tournament seeding(he knows something about this).
Failure as a President , failure as Commander(what a joke) in Chief, failure as a leader, failure to gather foreign leaders to act in Libya(they dont respect him either).
Even France(Sarcosi) has recomended a NO FLY zone.
Every ally around the world will doubt our resolve.
Obama encouraged Libyan protesters VERBALLY but did not act to even gather together foreign action. He diserted those he lead on deceitfully.
He is now seen world wide as weak and indecisive, and USA is seen as a "PaperTiger".
China, Russia, Iran, Chavez, OsamaBin Laden are all rejoicing tonight,,,USA is in decline!
Pres. Obama's unwillingness to commit to a no-fly zone puts us in a strong position to negotiate with Libya when the rebellion inevitably ends and he's going to need a lot of international aid to hold his country together, once again putting him in a position to make concessions. For the time being this is our best option.
Last edited by Donahue; 03-15-2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: STUPID FINGERS
Col. Gaddafi's Air Force has in no way been the deciding factor in this rebellion. It might be the most powerful example of his military superiority over the rebels but it's merely an example. The simple reality is the rebels are a rag tag bunch of amateur soldiers who are out gunned by a unified, professional military. Col. Gaddafi has rolled over the rebels since they took possession of a few cities in the east and have showed no signs of stopping.
Knocking out his flight capabilities wouldn't change any of this.
The fact is, you guys determine your position on issues by watching what Obama does, and then claiming something different would have worked better.
The tell-tale signal that you are all totally full of crap, is that you have to wait to see what Obama does before you come up with your "version".
If Obama had put a no-fly zone into place, you'd be all up in arms about it.
Is it perhaps barely possible that some people there actually SUPPORT his regime? I know it's really hard for right wingers to accept that not every "gook" in the world actually has a true blue American inside, just waiting to get out, but it may be so.
Last edited by John Drake; 03-15-2011 at 08:49 PM.
Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 03-15-2011 at 09:23 PM.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac H Tiffany (1819)
For example, where's the cash for this just for starters? Are some of those partisans willing to immediately agree to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the top earners and corporate tax cuts to pay for this war? A war is what it will likely require given the no-fly zones will almost certainly be insufficient to get rid of Khadafi. We are also already in two war theatres at great cost...one that helped drive up the deficit given they weren't properly paid for for many years. How about the issue of over-stretching and over-exhausting the military (and consideration of their lives) and its effects on other problematic theatres who make that assessment?
I've heard enough about the blather and rhetoric with the Iraq run-up insofar as quick cheap low friendly casualty wars with flowery endings, etc. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now to lazily assume such things or take no accounting of the responsibilities of conducting a war. It was bullshit bravado and flake jingoism in the prior wars too and hence why books and films by real veterans point that out, e.g. Red Badge of Courage, Born on the Fourth of July, All Quiet on the Western Front, etc.
YouTube - All quiet on the Western Front Part 1
Simply put, it's easy to start a war and hard to end one, and hard again to win the peace with them, e.g., what kind of resulting government and situation comes after the regime is toppled.
Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 03-15-2011 at 09:25 PM.
Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 03-15-2011 at 09:21 PM.