Thread: Just voted in the Canadian election

Originally Posted by Andrewl

I don't mean workers can't be paid well. But i do believe the will to provide top notch heath care already exists to the degree required - just that how it is ultimately delivered needs work. And prevention is also key.

Andrew

I agree that healthcare professionals have the desire to provide top notch healthcare.
I don't understand your opposition to competition.
Even without private hostpitals there could be competition between hostpitals if the funding followed the patients instead of block funding of hostpitals. That could improve service and maybe save money.

Private hostpitals would be fine by me. I don't care who owns the hostpital as long as the service is good and I'm covered.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

I don't believe health care should be a competitive industry. It should be driven only by empathy and compassion.

Andrew

Health care should be a competitive industry. This will lead to more efficient use of resources and more customer service and satisfaction.

What we have in Canada is a mix of public and private entities operating in the industry. This provides a semi competitive industry. We need more competitiveness in the provision of health care.

We need to keep the single payer insurance model that we have because it provides universal coverage, no Canadians go bankrupt to pay medical bills and the end result is that we live longer and pay less.

Originally Posted by Brexx

I agree that healthcare professionals have the desire to provide top notch healthcare.
I don't understand your opposition to competition.
Even without private hostpitals there could be competition between hostpitals if the funding followed the patients instead of block funding of hostpitals. That could improve service and maybe save money.

Private hostpitals would be fine by me. I don't care who owns the hostpital as long as the service is good and I'm covered.

My issue is not with competition, it is with introducing privatization in order to compete with public health care. We would just add a middleman insurance corporation who competes with other insurance corporations. It would not improve health care for all, just for some. Mainly it would just suck funding out of healthcare for all and into the bonuses for non health care executives. And thanks to NAFTA once we have the american insurance companies in, we could never get rid of them.

I'm OK with competition within the public system. That is healthy.

Andrew

Originally Posted by RDK

Health care should be a competitive industry. This will lead to more efficient use of resources and more customer service and satisfaction.

What we have in Canada is a mix of public and private entities operating in the industry. This provides a semi competitive industry. We need more competitiveness in the provision of health care.

We need to keep the single payer insurance model that we have because it provides universal coverage, no Canadians go bankrupt to pay medical bills and the end result is that we live longer and pay less.

Yes. I agree with that. My fear is what Alberta seemed to be proposing a few years back that would have brought in american insurance companies. It got to the point where they were actually in the province lobbying the government. There was quite a large backlash from all political ideologies in the province so it was quickly abandoned.

Andrew

Originally Posted by Andrewl

My issue is not with competition, it is with introducing privatization in order to compete with public health care. We would just add a middleman insurance corporation who competes with other insurance corporations. It would not improve health care for all, just for some. Mainly it would just suck funding out of healthcare for all and into the bonuses for non health care executives. And thanks to NAFTA once we have the american insurance companies in, we could never get rid of them.

I'm OK with competition within the public system. That is healthy.

Andrew

You are talking about competition at the insurance level. I'm not sure how that would work. How many people would pay for private health insurance when they are already covered under the public system and paying for it with their taxes?

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Even though it is obvious to many there are plenty of conservatives in this country who would be surprised and emotionally wounded to hear that Harper is considered "vindictive and petty" by Washington diplomats. One of the things i enjoy about wikileaks is its impeccable timing. . . .

What wikileaks does can be harmful IMO where in other instances it can be helpful. For example, I like it when someone leaks improprieties, deceits, etc, where the public ought to know about such skulduggery. I'm not in favour, however, of what they do insofar as exposing understandable things like diplomatic cables where the people are merely doing their job reporting the state of affairs wherever they are posted and expect their confidentiality in doing so when reporting to their superiors.

There is really no reason for any Conservative voters to view these cables as personal attacks, just a diplomat doing his or her job of reporting the political scene and doing nothing more than Canadian media and street sentiment claims and reports. But still, they can have that undesirable effect anyway. That was a cheap move by wikileaks IMO and these things, like here regarding these cables relating to Canada from US diplomats stationed there, hurts diplomacy.

Originally Posted by Brexx

You are talking about competition at the insurance level. I'm not sure how that would work. How many people would pay for private health insurance when they are already covered under the public system and paying for it with their taxes?

You'd be surprised. For example, many of my relatives have private care and private plans in addition to being able to use the public one in Ireland. It's comparable to having private and public schools. The latter is always an option for all people. For the wealthier, they get the choice which way to go...use the public or opt for private packages that come with special attentions and perks. For the poorer masses who don't have the financial luxury, it's the only option for them to use the public system and obviously a critical one, and them using it can help temper the kinds of costs that one might see in the US, e.g., using hospital services and passing the costs onto rate payers, sick or injured people who deteriorate into less efficient or down altogether for working purposes where they'll collect Social Security and other disability payments, or spread disease to others at human and financial losses, etc.

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

You'd be surprised. For example, many of my relatives have private care and private plans in addition to being able to use the public one in Ireland. It's comparable to having private and public schools. The latter is always an option for all people. For the wealthier, they get the choice which way to go...use the public or opt for private packages that come with special attentions and perks. For the poorer masses who don't have the financial luxury, it's the only option for them to use the public system and obviously a critical one, and them using it can help temper the kinds of costs that one might see in the US, e.g., using hospital services and passing the costs onto rate payers, sick or injured people who deteriorate into less efficient or down altogether for working purposes where they'll collect Social Security and other disability payments, or spread disease to others at human and financial losses, etc.

Yes, I can see it if there were private hostpitals where wealthy people with private insurance could go, but in Canada there are no hostpitals that are not operating within the public system. There is no place to go that you couldn't get to without private insurance.

Except the USA. There are insurance policies available in Canada that will cover the expense of going to the USA for a medical procedure.

Originally Posted by Brexx

Yes, I can see it if there were private hostpitals where wealthy people with private insurance could go, but in Canada there are no hostpitals that are not operating within the public system. There is no place to go that you couldn't get to without private insurance.

Except the USA. There are insurance policies available in Canada that will cover the expense of going to the USA for a medical procedure.

Sounds to me that it's a market for development, especially for things like doctor's offices, elderly care homes, etc.

Maybe the proximity to the border for 90% of Canadians might play a role in what you said too as to why packages are bought for US care. Something like 90% of the Canadian population lives within a short distance of the border, something that I note just by obvious observations being there so often like this weekend. It's a hop, skip and jump to the US for most Canadians even with driving and, if you're in OT or BC, even a major metropolitan US area (Buffalo, Detroit and Seattle metro areas) and that's just for driving. Planes can take a Canadian anywhere in the US quickly.

It looks like a Tory majority given the centre-to-left's pendulum's split of its votes helping Tories to win with a predicted rise of the NDP forming the opposition. The Grits and BQ as predicted got crushed...heck, BQ got obliterated:

Harper’s Conservatives to Win Majority in Canadian Elections, CTV Reports
By Theophilos Argitis and Greg Quinn - May 2, 2011 10:56 PM ET

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper will return to office with his first majority in Parliament and the pro-labor New Democratic Party will form the official opposition, CTV television network projected, based on preliminary results.

Harper’s Conservatives were ahead or leading in 165 districts, according to projections from CTV as of 10:52 p.m. New York time. Jack Layton’s New Democratic Party was leading in 104 seats and will form the official opposition for the first time, followed by 31 for the Liberal Party led by Michael Ignatieff and four for the Bloc Quebecois.

. . .

Harper?s Conservatives to Win Majority in Canadian Elections, CTV Reports - Bloomberg

Harper must be bouncing on the ceiling right now given no coalition can be formed to take him out and they have a mathematical way of controlling the government with around two dozen seats for breathing room. That means more breathing room to spare for passing Tory initiatives whilst leaving some breathing space for Tories in swing districts who might have to triangulate their votes from the party line on varying issues to keep their seats.

It wasn't a vote split that did it.

Blue Liberal voters swung Conservative and bought into the fear campaign by the right.

The Conservatives take 39% of the popular vote while the left-wing parties take 61%. Pretty much the same result as last time, but just enough in some key districts to push the Conservatives into majority territory.

For the first time in Canadian history, a gov't that was held in contempt of Parliament was rewarded with gains in that very same Parliament.

For the next 4 years it's going to be Neo-Cons leading the way in Canada. Trickle-down economics, 65 fighter jets we can't afford from the states; $6 billion in corporate tax cuts.

The Conservatives took a $13 billion surplus and have turned it into a $56 billlion debt but got rewarded for their fearmongering.

Canadians are comparing this to the US election of 2004. A country asleep at the wheel that wants to know just how bad it can get before we turn things around.

Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere

Sounds to me that it's a market for development, especially for things like doctor's offices, elderly care homes, etc.

Maybe the proximity to the border for 90% of Canadians might play a role in what you said too as to why packages are bought for US care. Something like 90% of the Canadian population lives within a short distance of the border, something that I note just by obvious observations being there so often like this weekend. It's a hop, skip and jump to the US for most Canadians even with driving and, if you're in OT or BC, even a major metropolitan US area (Buffalo, Detroit and Seattle metro areas) and that's just for driving. Planes can take a Canadian anywhere in the US quickly.

The access to US healthcare is a major factor here. This is why I can't see private healthcare ever taking off here. Weathy Canadians who don't like our system already have an option right next door.
Personally, I have no complaints about our system. Maybe thats because I have been blessed with good health, but when our sons were born I must say the service was excellent. I don't know how anything better could have been provided. And in my youth when I got all busted up in a car accident and spent a month in hostpital the service I got was just great.

Back to the election, it looks like a Conservative majority which is a good thing in MOP. The only other possibilies were minority governments of one kind or another and another election at any time. I preffer majority governments and we judge them at election time.
It looks like the Liberals are going down big time. They have governed for most of the coutry's history, so this is a big deal.
IMO Michael Ignatief is the best leader they have ever had. No wonder they rejected him!