Thread: Northern Ireland : New violent clashes between Catholics and Protestants

Ah we need the boys of the Old Brigade out again and make some Orange juice

Religious domination, segregation, and superiority complexes all in the name of "God" ending up leading to division, hate, conflict and ultimately senseless violence and harm.

Call me surprised... again...

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Religious domination, segregation, and superiority complexes all in the name of "God" ending up leading to division, hate, conflict and ultimately senseless violence and harm.

Call me surprised... again...

That's really only part of the problem.

Several hundred years of occupation and paramilitary violence is probably a bigger factor.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

That's really only part of the problem.

Several hundred years of occupation and paramilitary violence is probably a bigger factor.

Northern Ireland will remain British as long as its people want it to remain so. And almost three-quarters of the Northern Irish people wish Northern Ireland to remain within the UK. Even the majority of Northern Irish Catholics - 52% - wish NI to remain in the UK. This is only the latest in a succession of polls which shows Catholic support for the Union with Great Britain. Although, with the terrible economic failure of the Republic of Ireland who can blame them for not wanting to become part of that failed state?

Survey deals blow to Sinn Féin hopes of united Ireland

Life and Times survey shows 73% of Northern Ireland respondents want to stay in UK rather than link up with Dublin

Friday 17 June 2011
The Guardian

Sinn Féin's campaign for a united Ireland was dealt a severe blow on Friday when a survey in Northern Ireland showed that most Catholics there preferred to remain within the UK.

Fifty two per cent of Catholics living in Northern Ireland wanted that union to continue, while 35% said they desired a united Ireland.

Overall, 73% of respondents to the Life and Times survey – one of the main polling bodies in the province – said they wished to stay in the UK rather than link up with Dublin.

In successive Life and Times surveys since 2008, a majority of Catholics taking part have indicated a preference for staying in the UK.

Over the last few years, the Irish Republic has been perceived to be less attractive to northerners following Dublin's fiscal crisis and the ongoing recession.

An overwhelming number of Protestants in the north of Ireland continue to support the maintenance of the union with Britain. Only 4% of northern Protestants opted for Irish unity in the poll.

Survey deals blow to Sinn Féin hopes of united Ireland | Politics | guardian.co.uk
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Originally Posted by Voland

Police blame militant pro-british paramilitary groups to have ignited the violence and local politicians struggle to put out the fire before it destroys the peace process :

Those Loyalists are probably just miffed at recent atrocities committed by Irish republicans.

If anything is going to destroy the NI peace process it will be the recent car bomb killing of Catholic policeman Ronan Kerr by Irish republican terrorists rather than a few commonplace riots.



The killing occurred in Omagh, County Tyrone, in April, the town which, in August 1998, was the scene of the worst atrocity of The Troubles when a Real IRA car bomb killed 29 people - including two unborn babies - and injured 220.

It is thought that Irish republican terrorists are wanting to prevent Catholics from joining the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and are vowing to kill any Catholics who do so.

It is those who are a threat to the peace process.

I remember last year that it was reported in British newspapers that there were people in the Republic of Ireland who wrote letters to some Irish national newspapers stating that, as a result of the Republic of Ireland's recent economic crisis, they wish for the Republic of Ireland to rejoin the UK, which it seceded from in 1922. I'm all for the Republic of Ireland rejoining the UK but it'll have to cease to be a republic first.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

Northern Ireland will remain British as long as its people want it to remain so. And almost three-quarters of the Northern Irish people wish Northern Ireland to remain within the UK. Even the majority of Northern Irish Catholics - 52% - wish NI to remain in the UK. This is only the latest in a succession of polls which shows Catholic support for the Union with Great Britain.

I'm going to forewarn you right now, I am not reasonable on this subject. I try to be as reasonable, moderate, logical, and pragmatic as possible on virtually all areas of politics and related disciplines. On this, that is not the case.

I am an extremely strong Irish Nationalist, it's something I was raised with, it's something that is in my blood. If there was a strong conflict now to completely reunite the country, I would be there right now with a rifle in my hands.

From my perspective, I do not care what people transplanted into Northern Ireland by the British for the purpose of giving them a political base. It isnt their call to make, they are living in an area that was invaded and stolen from the Irish people and public opinion does not get to override something like that.

Although, with the terrible economic failure of the Republic of Ireland who can blame them for not wanting to become part of that failed state?

It helps when you have a world economic power bankrolling you the way Northern Ireland does.

And where is the concerned international community?!
Where are calls for democratic bombings of Buckingham Palace?!

Clearly, the brave protestors/revolutionaries/freedom fighters had been brutally delt with by an opressive undemocratic regime of British monarchy!

Originally Posted by Hoplite

If there was a strong conflict now to completely reunite the country, I would be there right now with a rifle in my hands.

No, you wouldn't. The Troubles last about 30 years and I bet you never took part in that, either.

It isnt their call to make

Yes, it is. Who are you to tell the people of Northern Ireland what country they should belong to? The people of Northern Ireland will decide themselves. And, according to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, not only has the Republic of Ireland relinquished its claim to Northern Ireland but Northern Ireland will remain part of the UK for as long as the people of Northern Ireland say so according to their democratic wishes. If you don't like that, tough. And there are many people in the Republic of Ireland who don't even want Northern Ireland as part of their country.

Here are some of the thing that the 1998 Good Friday Agreement - agreed on by the people of NI and the Republic - acknowledged and recognised:

* that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland at the time wished to remain as part of the United Kingdom, and that Northern Ireland's present and continuing status as part of the United Kingdom was a reflection of that wish;
* that a "substantial section" of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority "of the people of the island of Ireland", wished to bring about a united Ireland;
* that both views were legitimate;
* that it was only for the people of Ireland as a whole, by agreement between North and South, "to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given", to bring about a united Ireland;
* that any future change in the status of Northern Ireland as a part of the United Kingdom is only to be brought about by the freely exercised choice of "a majority of the people of Northern Ireland"; and that the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.

So, for as long as the people of Northern Ireland wish for Northern Ireland to remain in the UK then Northern Ireland will remain in the UK.

The Agreement also acknowledges:

* The "birthright" of all the people of Northern Ireland "to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish OR British, or both", is also recognised, as well as their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship; and that these rights are NOT to be affected should Northern Ireland become a part of a united Ireland.

So, even in the event of a united Ireland, the people of Northern Ireland will still have the right to consider themselves as British and hold British citizenship.

The 1998 Good Friday Agreement also saw the Republic of Ireland relinquishing its claim to Northern Ireland.

The Agreement was voted on by the people in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and both peoples accepted it overwhelmingly.

71% of the people of Northern Ireland voted for the Agreement and a whopping 94% of the people of the Republic of Ireland voted for it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast...ral_provisions

And before you witter on about people "transplanted" into Northern Ireland, remember that it was the Irish who invaded and settled Britain first before the British ever went over to Ireland. The word "Scot", referring to Scotland, refers to the Irish who came over to Britain in the third and fourth centuries to settle and form what is now Scotland. In fact, during the recent Queen's visit to the Republic of Ireland, an Irish historian commented on Sky News on the fact that the Irish invaded and settled Britain first and mentioned that it's an inconvenient truth that many Irish people avoid facing.

It helps when you have a world economic power bankrolling you the way Northern Ireland does.

Northern Ireland is an intrinsic part of the United Kingdom and has been for over 200 years. It's a part of the UK economy in the same way that Maine or Texas is a part of the US economy. And I don't think anyone would blame the Northern Irish for not wanting to be ruled by the bankrupt failed state to the south of them. They aren't stupid, you know.

Originally Posted by Alma

Where are calls for democratic bombings of Buckingham Palace?!

Not only have the Irish republicans lost but they don't even get much support within the island of Ireland either. The recent killing of a PSNI officer by Irish republicans was condemned on all sides, even by Sinn Fein.

The only support really that Irish republicans get nowadays are from a few ignorant "Irish Americans" along America's eastern seaboard, most of whom don't have a drop of Irish blood in them and struggle to find Ireland on the map. But, thankfully, funding from the IRA by these "Irish Americans" dropped considerably in the wake of 9/11.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

Not only have the Irish republicans lost but they don't even get much support within the island of Ireland either.

Well, sounds like Lybian situation!

International community must come to the aid of fredom fighters and bomb, bomb, bomb brutal opressive monarchy!

Sorry, did I say "bomb"? I meant "democratically protect civilians".

Originally Posted by Hoplite

That's really only part of the problem.

Several hundred years of occupation and paramilitary violence is probably a bigger factor.

No, it is a real issue. The occupation is the basis for all of this of course, the typical nonsense over religious divisions (all that I mentioned above) keeps this well alive and will continue to do so. Welcome to the true nature of religion.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

No, you wouldn't.

I'll thank you not to try and dictate the actions of a person you know nothing about.

The Troubles last about 30 years and I bet you never took part in that, either.

Not directly, no. I had family who did and from that I inherited a very determined Irish Nationalist streak and a much smaller family tree.

Yes, it is. Who are you to tell the people of Northern Ireland what country they should belong to? The people of Northern Ireland will decide themselves.

AFTER they were put there by invaders. How democratic.

And, according to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, not only has the Republic of Ireland relinquished its claim to Northern Ireland but Northern Ireland will remain part of the UK for as long as the people of Northern Ireland say so according to their democratic wishes. If you don't like that, tough. And there are many people in the Republic of Ireland who don't even want Northern Ireland as part of their country.

It doesn't matter, it isn't right that a country be broken up this way because another country got greedy.

Here are some of the thing that the 1998 Good Friday Agreement - agreed on by the people of NI and the Republic - acknowledged and recognised:

* that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland at the time wished to remain as part of the United Kingdom, and that Northern Ireland's present and continuing status as part of the United Kingdom was a reflection of that wish;
* that a "substantial section" of the people of Northern Ireland, and the majority "of the people of the island of Ireland", wished to bring about a united Ireland;
* that both views were legitimate;
* that it was only for the people of Ireland as a whole, by agreement between North and South, "to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given", to bring about a united Ireland;
* that any future change in the status of Northern Ireland as a part of the United Kingdom is only to be brought about by the freely exercised choice of "a majority of the people of Northern Ireland"; and that the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.

So, for as long as the people of Northern Ireland wish for Northern Ireland to remain in the UK then Northern Ireland will remain in the UK.

That's nice. I dont believe a person or a government can sign and sell away parts of itself away nor do I believe they should be allowed to do so.

War weariness makes people agree to crazy things and the Good Friday agreement stems from that. What Ireland needs is a new generation of fighters in the spirit of the 1919 IRA, not the terrorists and drug dealers of today.

The Agreement also acknowledges:

* The "birthright" of all the people of Northern Ireland "to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish OR British, or both", is also recognised, as well as their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship; and that these rights are NOT to be affected should Northern Ireland become a part of a united Ireland.

So, even in the event of a united Ireland, the people of Northern Ireland will still have the right to consider themselves as British and hold British citizenship.

The 1998 Good Friday Agreement also saw the Republic of Ireland relinquishing its claim to Northern Ireland.

The Agreement was voted on by the people in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and both peoples accepted it overwhelmingly.

71% of the people of Northern Ireland voted for the Agreement and a whopping 94% of the people of the Republic of Ireland voted for it.


Belfast Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, war weariness makes people agree to things they shouldnt.

And before you witter on about people "transplanted" into Northern Ireland, remember that it was the Irish who invaded and settled Britain first before the British ever went over to Ireland. The word "Scot", referring to Scotland, refers to the Irish who came over to Britain in the third and fourth centuries to settle and form what is now Scotland. In fact, during the recent Queen's visit to the Republic of Ireland, an Irish historian commented on Sky News on the fact that the Irish invaded and settled Britain first and mentioned that it's an inconvenient truth that many Irish people avoid facing.

And that makes the shooting of Irish civilians suddenly ok?

Northern Ireland is an intrinsic part of the United Kingdom and has been for over 200 years. It's a part of the UK economy in the same way that Maine or Texas is a part of the US economy. And I don't think anyone would blame the Northern Irish for not wanting to be ruled by the bankrupt failed state to the south of them. They aren't stupid, you know.

No, they're British.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

And before you witter on about people "transplanted" into Northern Ireland, remember that it was the Irish who invaded and settled Britain first before the British ever went over to Ireland. The word "Scot", referring to Scotland, refers to the Irish who came over to Britain in the third and fourth centuries to settle and form what is now Scotland. In fact, during the recent Queen's visit to the Republic of Ireland, an Irish historian commented on Sky News on the fact that the Irish invaded and settled Britain first and mentioned that it's an inconvenient truth that many Irish people avoid facing.

Right. hey, I've got an idea. The Brits can keep Northern Ireland, and Ireland gets Scotland in exchange. How about that?