Thread: Otto von Habsburg, last austro-hungarian crown prince, died

Otto Habsburg Lothringen, eldest son of the last emperor of Austrian and king of Hungary, lived most of his life in Bavarian exile but after he laid down his claims to the Austrian throne relations with Austria normalized. He is probably best known for his role as member of the European parliament which he was for 20 years until 1999 and his visionary predictions of the fall of the east block and subsequent integration into a common European project already in the early 80's. At the same time he was as could be expected from a real Habsburger a very religious catholic and borderline ultra conservative.

He died now at the age of 98 in his home in Bavaria and the funeral will be held on 16th July in Vienna. Like for his ancestors , there is going to be a requiem in the Stephan's Cathedral and he is going to be burried in the Augustinergruft next to them.

AEIOU

YouTube - ‪Otto von Habsburg dies at the age of 98‬‏
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...sburg-obituary

More than 20 years ago he was facing the funeral of his mother Zita last empress of Austria, now the funeral will be his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLEsV...eature=related

Merged.

Oh, Voland was much faster than me. I had no idea ...

Btw, if there is anything to like about the Habsburger it is their funeral ceremony. I would be interested to know if other dynasties did it in a similar way or if that was rather special:

YouTube - Habsburger Begräbnisritual

*Knock, knock, knock*
Monk: Who is there?
First answer: "Full list of titles of the deceased".
Monk: We do not know him.

*Knock, knock, knock*
Monk: Who is there?
Second answer: "Short title and name of the deceased".
Monk: We do not know him.

*Knock, knock, knock*
Monk: Who is there?
Third answer: "First name of the deceased", a poor sinner
*Monk nods and opens the door*

Who is head of the family now?

And does anyone know if there are any members of the Byzantine royalty left? The only thing I was ever able to find on the Internet was something about some nominal counts in the south of Italy and a vague relationship to the Romanovs, (but the Romanovs were not really the Romanovs by blood since Catherine the Great, were they?)

Originally Posted by John Drake

Who is head of the family now?

Karl von Habsburg, Otto's son, is the current Head and has been since 2007.

This is despite the fact that the House of Habsburg was dissolved in 1780.

Originally Posted by Sir Drinkalot

Karl von Habsburg, Otto's son, is the current Head and has been since 2007.

This is despite the fact that the House of Habsburg was dissolved in 1780.

Yes, Karl took over a few years ago but as the eldest and former head Otto was still regarded as the leading face of the family.

The house of Habsburg-Lothringen then. :rolleyes:
Habsburg is an abbreviation. Who cares?

As last former heir of the throne and eldest son of the last Austrian emperor it is him and him alone who was seen as last influential Habsburger. His son Karl definitely isn't.


Anyway, the death of Otto Habsburg-Lothringen filled the first pages of all Austrian newspapers I saw today. With special reports in pretty all of them as well.

The funeral marathon has begun:

Requiem in Pöcking (Bavaria, where he had his home for 60 years)
Monday: Requiem in Munich (homebase of the party he worked for 20 years as MEP)
Tuesday: Requiem in Mariazell (Austria, largest pilgrim place in Austria)
Saturday: Funeral in Vienna
Sepulture of his heart in Pannonhalma (Hungary)

I have nothing to do on Saturday and am wondering if I should have a look at the centre, just to find out how many people he is still able to mobilize. But then, is that an awkwardly monarchistic thing to do?

Mankind's fascination with celebrities, new and old, never ceases to baffle me.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Mankind's fascination with celebrities, new and old, never ceases to baffle me.

I think its not so much celebrity as the fascination that comes from his age and what he witnessed during the decades with his own eyes. I mean he lived almost 100 years and was the last heir of the throne, son of the last emperor and even got to know Franz Joseph as a little child.

He was if you want the last living link to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria is staunchly republican these days but nonetheless you see almost as much Habsburg kitsch in Vienna as you have monarchy kitsch in London. Tourists love it.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

I think its not so much celebrity as the fascination that comes from his age and what he witnessed during the decades with his own eyes. I mean he lived almost 100 years and was the last heir of the throne, son of the last emperor and even got to know Franz Joseph as a little child.

He was if you want the last living link to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Austria is staunchly republican these days but nonetheless you see almost as much Habsburg kitsch in Vienna as you have monarchy kitsch in London. Tourists love it.

Perhaps it's the Socialist in me, but I have very little affection for someone who represents a system of government that crushed men under-foot for centuries. The idea that some men are the "betters" and others born for the sole purpose of servitude is an idea I find bitterly distasteful and yet it was the idea that buoyed up autocratic systems of government.

I hold no ill-will towards the man or his family, merely what he represents.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Perhaps it's the Socialist in me, but I have very little affection for someone who represents a system of government that crushed men under-foot for centuries. The idea that some men are the "betters" and others born for the sole purpose of servitude is an idea I find bitterly distasteful and yet it was the idea that buoyed up autocratic systems of government.

I hold no ill-will towards the man or his family, merely what he represents.

Yes that line of thinking is also found in Austria, especially among social democrats. But the open hostility has faded, the Habsburger are allowed to enter Austria again, after Otto gave up his claims for the throne in the 1960s. But discrimination persisted. Actually it is only now that the banning from passive voting right (ie being a political candidate for presidential offices) of all members of any ever ruling house (not only the Habsburger) is going to be abolished again. I think this could have had a justification back then but nowadays it is hard to legitimize why some people are excluded from their democratic rights that every other citizen is guaranteed only because of your blood line.

I have to say I oppose a lot of Otto's views. After all he was a strict conservative if not reactionary. But at the same time he was an intellectual and a person who made the best out of his life and did not try to force stone age ideology on anyone but rather tried to change Europe towards what he conceived to be the better. And that was especially reuniting Europe again and living a life as a good christian.

The Habsburger have tons of bad sides but the good one always was that they always had to learn a real profession, future emperor or not. I am not sure which it was for Otto, but many of them actually were learned botanics, most of them played some of the classical instruments and were very well capable of appreciating the high culture they sponsored (that means this wasn't pure vanity but often rather a honest aim of support of art they practised themselves). Some of them engaged in real scientific work as well, going on expedition to collect botanic specimen. But the best side, which at least some major Habsburger showed was modesty and working ethics. Some might not believe it because the court of course followed lavish procedures. But this was seen for example by Franz Joseph as a job rather than his pleasure. This man stood up at 3:30 am, started working at 5 am and worked into the evening, his actual bed could be only describe by the term "very modest" (but he could afford having it modest because it was not supposed to be seen by the public) and it is said he liked the simple meals like Kaiserschmarrn the most.

I am not saying I am looking up to them, simply that they actually also had their interesting and positive sides.

I heard a great story about him over the weekend. Goes something like this:

One day, one of Habsburg's aides in the European Parliament came to him and asked for the afternoon off. Habsburg asked why. The aide confessed somewhat sheepishly that he wanted to watch a soccer game.

Habsburg consented, then inquired. "Who is playing?"

"Austria and Hungary," his staffer replied.

Habsburg is said to have looked up from his desk and asked: "Against whom?"