Thread: TransCanada To Obama: Screw You

Originally Posted by tsquare

And good for TransCanada:



Don't you just love it?



This is Entrepreneurship... this is how you overcome obstacles, and profit from it. This is what real builder and doers do.

Outstanding...

TransCanada May Shorten Keystone XL - Bloomberg

The Canadian government seems to have had roughly the same idea - Canada Pledges to Sell Oil to Asia After Obama Rejects Keystone Pipeline - Bloomberg

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, in a telephone call yesterday, told Obama “Canada will continue to work to diversify its energy exports,” according to details provided by Harper’s office. Canadian Natural Resource Minister Joe Oliver said relying less on the U.S. would help strengthen the country’s “financial security.”

Originally Posted by lutherf

The Canadian government seems to have had roughly the same idea - Canada Pledges to Sell Oil to Asia After Obama Rejects Keystone Pipeline - Bloomberg

The northern gateway pipeline from the tar sands to the BC coast will never be built for many reasons.

-The first nations along the route are united against it, most have never signed any land treaties with the federal government, and have won all sorts of court battles over the last 13 years giving them full control over their traditional land.

-The NDP opposition in BC is opposed to it and is polling at 40% (liberals are at 31% and have to call an election soon, conservatives are at 20%).

-A majority of BC residents are opposed to the project.

-If in the end there is an attempt to force the project through, there have already been preparations by the native groups to build their traditional longhouses along the path where the pipeline is supposed to go.

-Native and Environmental groups have pledged to physically use their bodies as an obstacle to any construction.

This entire thing is likely to end in blockades and bloodshed. Harper simply will not get his cherished pipeline to Asia.

Originally Posted by tsquare

And good for TransCanada:



Don't you just love it?



This is Entrepreneurship... this is how you overcome obstacles, and profit from it. This is what real builder and doers do.

Outstanding...

TransCanada May Shorten Keystone XL - Bloomberg

Do you really believe that Obama is opposed to the keystone xl pipeline? He wants the pipeline, he just wants to win the election first before he approves it.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

The northern gateway pipeline from the tar sands to the BC coast will never be built for many reasons.

-The first nations along the route are united against it, most have never signed any land treaties with the federal government, and have won all sorts of court battles over the last 13 years giving them full control over their traditional land.

-The NDP opposition in BC is opposed to it and is polling at 40% (liberals are at 31% and have to call an election soon, conservatives are at 20%).

-A majority of BC residents are opposed to the project.

-If in the end there is an attempt to force the project through, there have already been preparations by the native groups to build their traditional longhouses along the path where the pipeline is supposed to go.

-Native and Environmental groups have pledged to physically use their bodies as an obstacle to any construction.

This entire thing is likely to end in blockades and bloodshed. Harper simply will not get his cherished pipeline to Asia.

I agree that northern gateway looks like a long shot at this point, but I have to correct you on one thing. BC first nations did not win full control over what they claim to be their traditional lands. The courts have ruled that the govt must consult with them before approving development on their land. It didn't give them absolute veto power.
Oil from the sands will get to the west coast one way or another. Alberta oil has been piped to Vancouver for fifty years already.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Do you really believe that Obama is opposed to the keystone xl pipeline? He wants the pipeline, he just wants to win the election first before he approves it.

Doesn't it bother you that he is purposefully holding up thousands of good paying jobs, etc. so he can win a political election?

I think this is EXACTLY why we need as little governmental involvement in our lives as possible.

Originally Posted by Wagner

Doesn't it bother you that he is purposefully holding up thousands of good paying jobs, etc. so he can win a political election?

I think this is EXACTLY why we need as little governmental involvement in our lives as possible.

Given a choice between accepting or rejecting a plan with serious environmental questions, raised by Republicans no less, Obama rejected the plan.
His initial plan was to submit the plan for a thorough review to see if changes could be made to answer the environmental concerns, but the GOP added a provision that the plan must be accepted of rejected in 60 days, not enough time to modify the plan, so it was rejected, it can be resubmitted a process that will take slightly longer than what Obama wanted.

Does it bother you that Boehner and the GOP would purposefully delay this project for petty political concerns?

goober
Given a choice between accepting or rejecting a plan with serious environmental questions, raised by Republicans no less, Obama rejected the plan.
His initial plan was to submit the plan for a thorough review to see if changes could be made to answer the environmental concerns, but the GOP added a provision that the plan must be accepted of rejected in 60 days, not enough time to modify the plan, so it was rejected, it can be resubmitted a process that will take slightly longer than what Obama wanted.

Does it bother you that Boehner and the GOP would purposefully delay this project for petty political concerns?

Bullshit, everyone knows that the administrations attempt to punt this decision until after the election was PURELY political, an effort to avoid making an affirmative decision that two parts of his political base (environmental extremists and labor unions) are diametrically opposed on which would unavoidably piss off one of the two.

I can't help but put this in the context of the typically vapid MSNBC commercial with Rachel Madow standing in front of the Hoover Damn lamenting that we don't do big things like that as a country these days...oblivious in her ignorance that we CAN'T do things like that today because the left's acquisence to environmentalists has made it impossible to engage in such things in any reasonable enough time frame and cost that any rational person would support it.

You want BIG THINGS like the Hoover damn, the Keystone Pipeline and the jobs and economic benefits that flow (no pun intended) from them in perpetuity, then let's go back to the regulatory (environmental and labor) environment which fostered such big things in the past.

Originally Posted by Wagner

Doesn't it bother you that he is purposefully holding up thousands of good paying jobs, etc. so he can win a political election?

I think this is EXACTLY why we need as little governmental involvement in our lives as possible.

it bothers me that he won't just deny the project outright, for all of time.

Tar sands and drilling further and further offshore is the last resort of fools.

Originally Posted by Brexx

I agree that northern gateway looks like a long shot at this point, but I have to correct you on one thing. BC first nations did not win full control over what they claim to be their traditional lands. The courts have ruled that the govt must consult with them before approving development on their land. It didn't give them absolute veto power.
Oil from the sands will get to the west coast one way or another. Alberta oil has been piped to Vancouver for fifty years already.

The situation as i understand it is this:

The input from the natives could be "we reject the pipeline". At that point the only option left open to the feds is to use the "declaratory power" of the constitution which gives them the power to override the natives by declaring the project in the public interest of all of Canada. This power has not been used much (or at all) since 1967. And certainly never on such a controversial project. I do not doubt Harper's intention to bully this project through, but someone like him is also deeply aware of the political risk he faces by essentially taking over a regional project and making it a federal project - not a very "conservative" thing to do. And even if he does do that, there is still going to be direct activism against the pipeline, it wil make the Oka crisis or the Clayoquot Sound battle look mild in comparison.

Yes, Alberta oil will still be piped to the west coast through Vancouver. But as long as the public can prevent keystone or gateway or any more pipelines from the tar sands at all from being constructed the oil sands cannot expand near as much as they want. That for me is crucially important.

IRONY...

Isn't it amazing that 'states rights' and 'property rights' are out the window when right wingers don't like the decision or who made it?

The debate over this pipeline has been going on at the community and state level. But it's really not their decision or their property, it's BIG Federal government's job to DICTATE!


"We didn't inherit this land from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children."
Lakota Sioux Proverb

Originally Posted by Marcus1124

Bullshit, everyone knows that the administrations attempt to punt this decision until after the election was PURELY political, an effort to avoid making an affirmative decision that two parts of his political base (environmental extremists and labor unions) are diametrically opposed on which would unavoidably piss off one of the two.

I can't help but put this in the context of the typically vapid MSNBC commercial with Rachel Madow standing in front of the Hoover Damn lamenting that we don't do big things like that as a country these days...oblivious in her ignorance that we CAN'T do things like that today because the left's acquisence to environmentalists has made it impossible to engage in such things in any reasonable enough time frame and cost that any rational person would support it.

You want BIG THINGS like the Hoover damn, the Keystone Pipeline and the jobs and economic benefits that flow (no pun intended) from them in perpetuity, then let's go back to the regulatory (environmental and labor) environment which fostered such big things in the past.

The application was incomplete at the deadline set by congress, rejection was the only possible choice.

Originally Posted by goober

The application was incomplete at the deadline set by congress, rejection was the only possible choice.

Leave to a regressive to equate the Hoover Dam with a project that promised riches for the oil giants and an environmental disaster for the rest of us.