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View Poll Results: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?
Yes 5 10.20%
No 41 83.67%
Don't know 3 6.12%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I see some relevance to your questions but not as much as you do, and I can say not much to all of them.
Then aren't you forming an opinion based on a lack of information and since you have no real experience yourself aren't you just accepting someone elses opinion as your own? If this is the case, and your answer seems to indicate it is, why should we who do live with the system take your opinions seriously. I mean no disrespect but since I know very little about your legal system would you take my opinion derived from reading a paper or two or seeing a documentary made by someone with a grudge against your country seriously? Be honest.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
It only happened because the governor was a good and responsible guy, suppose he wasn't?
You're talking about George Ryan, former Illiniois governor. And "good and responsible"? That's quite a stretch:

George Ryan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
George Homer Ryan (born February 24, 1934 in Maquoketa, Iowa) was the Republican Governor of the U.S. state of Illinois from 1999 until 2003. Although Ryan "raised the national debate on capital punishment" by issuing a moratorium on executions in 2000 [1], he was marked by corruption and racketeering charges that led to his retiring from politics in 2003, and to criminal convictions in 2006.
I realize that wiki isn't really much of a reliable source, but the information there is accurate. Living in Illinois, I've been hearing all about this on the news for years. (As an interesting aside, one of my friends was an alternate juror for his trial)
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Very well written post, but comparing the U.S in 2006 to the USSR and especially the Roman Empire is frankly ludicrous.
Why? Because you SAY it is? Hardly.

Wallaroo, you dont seem to have a true understanding about the sheer size of the United States as well as the vastly different cultures in different areas of the country.

Believe me when i tell you that Spaniards and Italians and Greeks have more in common than a New Yorker, a Texan and a Californian. We are NOTHING like Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I can understand peoples desire for having the government as close to them as possible, but not when it comes to having their own criminal laws and judicial systems.
No, i dont think you really CAN understand it, as the judicial system is part of the core function of government. You seem to think that someone in Minnesota will see things the same way as a Floridian.

For example - here in Texas, if i have to hold a burglar at gun point until the police arrive, it would never occur to anyone to charge ME with any crime. On the other hand, in many northern states, that action could possibly be a felony! The juries in the north would have no problem considering me an even worse criminal than the man who broke into my home. The average southerner would wonder why i didnt shoot him and save the county the cost of a trial.

You really do not understand my friend. You simply - arrogantly i might add - think you have a better idea than all 300 million Americans as well as every American who ever lived. I assure you - you do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I can see how it made sense and was the most effective back in the very old days, before planes, cars, trains and computers, but not anymore.
Please explain for us how it would make less sense today. Please also explain for us how these forms of technology somehow changed human nature. Seriously - i want to know - and so do a lot of psychologists and philosophers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I doubt that it was your forefathers intention that the constitution should last for as long as it now has.
No it wasnt, and in truth, it hasnt. Its been amended many times since its adoption. If there were enough people here who thought as you do, it could be amended again.

I would submit to you that since such an amendment hasnt even been suggested, that either you're so staggeringly more intelligent than any American who ever lived as to be beyond my comprehension, or more likely - we dont want such a thing.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
Then aren't you forming an opinion based on a lack of information and since you have no real experience yourself aren't you just accepting someone elses opinion as your own? If this is the case, and your answer seems to indicate it is, why should we who do live with the system take your opinions seriously. I mean no disrespect but since I know very little about your legal system would you take my opinion derived from reading a paper or two or seeing a documentary made by someone with a grudge against your country seriously? Be honest.
I don't accept other peoples opinion as my own and I get my information from the media (just like everybody else), and put it together myself. Lets say I had some positive personal experiences with the U.S judicial system, should I then assume that it works fine just because of that? I doubt you learned much about the German judicial system when you lived there.
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Last edited by Wallaroo; 12-05-2006 at 05:12 PM.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

If everything that I have researched is accurate, than the Country of Denmark is considerably smaller than the state of Colorado...

Quote:
Originally Posted by encarta.com
Colorado ranks eighth among the states in size. It has an area of 269,602 sq km (104,094 sq mi)
Colorado - MSN Encarta

Quote:
Originally Posted by encarta.com
Denmark has an area of 43,094 sq km (16,639 sq mi),
Denmark - MSN Encarta

So, while it may make sense to have a single set of criminal laws there....
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
You're talking about George Ryan, former Illiniois governor. And "good and responsible"? That's quite a stretch:

George Ryan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I realize that wiki isn't really much of a reliable source, but the information there is accurate. Living in Illinois, I've been hearing all about this on the news for years. (As an interesting aside, one of my friends was an alternate juror for his trial)
Weather the guy is a prick or not, he did the right thing at last.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I don't accept other peoples opinion as my own and I get my information from the media (just like everybody else), and put it together myself. Lets say I had some positive personal experiences with the U.S judicial system, should I then assume that it works fine just because of that? I doubt you learned much about the German judicial system when you lived there.
Interactions with the judicial system by their very nature will almost always be negative for most people. Whether it is a speeding ticket or being tried for a capital offense, the judicial system decides whether a person's actions deserve retribution. The Judicial system has the authority to deny people of their property, liberty, and even life. It cannot become an impersonal system and must represent the values of the individual subsets of society.

The judicial system along with law enforcement are in many cases the only direct contact the government has with the people which is exactly why it is more important that the system is not entirely centralized.

The criminal justice system would become an automatic process if it was all taken on by the federal government. Each crime is committed by an individual and they cannot be arbitrarily tried and sentenced.

Just as I am expected to respect the laws and morals of society as I travel through different parts of Europe, Americans know to respect the slightly differing laws and more importantly the differing morals as they travel through different states.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
I don't accept other peoples opinion as my own and I get my information from the media (just like everybody else), and put it together myself. Lets say I had some positive personal experiences with the U.S judicial system, should I then assume that it works fine just because of that? I doubt you learned much about the German judicial system when you lived there.
Well actually I did have experience with the German legal system when I lived there, and it worked just fine for me. And that is the point Wallaroo. You make all these pronouncements over things you have no real knowledge of or experience with. Dr. Goodtrips gave you a perfect example. You seemed to be assuming George Ryan was a good governor based on one thing he did that you agreed with. However before coming to that conclusion you failed to actually research the man. Does that one good deed make him a good person? Perhaps but you had no way of knowing that because the article you read didn't go into his legal troubles because it wasn't the focus of the author. If it did and you still have the opinion of him you do then I would have to question your ethics.

Wallaroo I don't even think the US criminal justice system is as good as it should be. I do not think the German system is either. The difference is I have experience with them and can draw my conclusions on more than just the opinion of someone else with an axe to grind. It isn't that I don't read about them, but I don't just read one sided articles and assume I can make come to a judgement of the relative merits based on that.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno View Post
If everything that I have researched is accurate, than the Country of Denmark is considerably smaller than the state of Colorado...



Colorado - MSN Encarta



Denmark - MSN Encarta

So, while it may make sense to have a single set of criminal laws there....
And China is even larger than the U.S and has 4 times the population, and they too have a single set of criminal laws (except for Hong Kong). Not a comparison which can be used directly since China is not a democratic country, but still....
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
And China is even larger than the U.S and has 4 times the population, and they too have a single set of criminal laws (except for Hong Kong). Not a comparison which can be used directly since China is not a democratic country, but still....
As you mentioned - it isnt a direct comparison. Its also hardly valid under any conditions.

It really doesnt matter anyway. Our justice system is our justice system. We really dont care what you think of it. It isnt your job to like or dislike it.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort View Post
Well actually I did have experience with the German legal system when I lived there, and it worked just fine for me. And that is the point Wallaroo. You make all these pronouncements over things you have no real knowledge of or experience with. Dr. Goodtrips gave you a perfect example. You seemed to be assuming George Ryan was a good governor based on one thing he did that you agreed with. However before coming to that conclusion you failed to actually research the man. Does that one good deed make him a good person? Perhaps but you had no way of knowing that because the article you read didn't go into his legal troubles because it wasn't the focus of the author. If it did and you still have the opinion of him you do then I would have to question your ethics.

Wallaroo I don't even think the US criminal justice system is as good as it should be. I do not think the German system is either. The difference is I have experience with them and can draw my conclusions on more than just the opinion of someone else with an axe to grind. It isn't that I don't read about them, but I don't just read one sided articles and assume I can make come to a judgement of the relative merits based on that.
You are right that I was too fast assuming that governor George Ryan was a good and responsible governor. But what he did before he resigned was indeed a good and responsible act, and he sure seems to agree with my statements about the U.S judicial system as you can see below.
Quote:
In addition to the four pardons, Ryan also commuted the death sentences of all the people on death row to life in prison, without possibility of parole – 167people. Explaining this action, Ryan said, "The system has proved itself to be wildly inaccurate, unjust and unable to separate the innocent from the guilty and, at times, a very racist system."
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Wallaroo, you dont seem to have a true understanding about the sheer size of the United States as well as the vastly different cultures in different areas of the country.

Believe me when i tell you that Spaniards and Italians and Greeks have more in common than a New Yorker, a Texan and a Californian. We are NOTHING like Europe.
I believe that people in the three European countries you mentioned actually have more in common than Texans, New Yorkers and Californians. However, South Europeans (Latinos) and North Europeans (Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch etc.) are far more different from each other than Americans could ever be.
Quote:
No, i dont think you really CAN understand it, as the judicial system is part of the core function of government. You seem to think that someone in Minnesota will see things the same way as a Floridian.
Most of the things that people goes to prison for in the different states are the same anyway. It is the punishments that varies, so its really not a big deal.
Quote:
For example - here in Texas, if i have to hold a burglar at gun point until the police arrive, it would never occur to anyone to charge ME with any crime. On the other hand, in many northern states, that action could possibly be a felony! The juries in the north would have no problem considering me an even worse criminal than the man who broke into my home. The average southerner would wonder why i didnt shoot him and save the county the cost of a trial.
Some kind of compromises can always be found on smaller issues like that. Away from that you wont feel much difference in your everyday life.
Quote:
You really do not understand my friend. You simply - arrogantly i might add - think you have a better idea than all 300 million Americans as well as every American who ever lived. I assure you - you do not.
I dont think I know better than all Americans, but sometimes its easier to see things from an outside perspective. This is just a discussion about the pros and cons of federal criminal laws.
Quote:
Please explain for us how it would make less sense today. Please also explain for us how these forms of technology somehow changed human nature. Seriously - i want to know - and so do a lot of psychologists and philosophers.
People move around a lot more than they did back then, and that combined with mobility, information and communication have changed human nature to some extend, so they all have become more alike.
Quote:
No it wasnt, and in truth, it hasnt. Its been amended many times since its adoption. If there were enough people here who thought as you do, it could be amended again.
If I understand correctly - then the constitution cannot be ammended so that the federal government gets jurisdiction over criminal laws anyway. The constitution would simply have to be replaced with a new one in order to do so, and therefore you have nothing to worry about.
Quote:
I would submit to you that since such an amendment hasnt even been suggested, that either you're so staggeringly more intelligent than any American who ever lived as to be beyond my comprehension, or more likely - we dont want such a thing.
Americans dont want such a thing because they are too emotional about it, just like Germans would be if they had different criminal laws in their states.
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Last edited by Wallaroo; 12-07-2006 at 10:53 AM.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
If I understand correctly - then the constitution cannot be ammended so that the federal government gets jurisdiction over criminal laws anyway. The constitution would simply have to be replaced with a new one in order to do so, and therefore you have nothing to worry about.
Americans dont want such a thing because they are too emotional about it, just like Germans would be if they had different criminal laws in their states.
Do you understand what you are proposing? you cant just simply replace the Constitution. You are talking about reworking the entire government of the United States, which has worked fine so far.

What are Americans too emotional about? that they want the federal government to keep out of the states business. All basic crimes have equal punishment (murder = life in prison or death). You act like in New York, murder will give you 5 years, but in Texas you will get hung.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Non Sequitur View Post
What are Americans too emotional about? that they want the federal government to keep out of the states business. All basic crimes have equal punishment (murder = life in prison or death). You act like in New York, murder will give you 5 years, but in Texas you will get hung.
To some degree, that is pretty well the case. In some states, murder will get a pretty light sentance where as in others it earns you (correctly in my opinion) the death penalty.

**Language police alert**
Its not "hung" its "hanged". A picture is hung, a person is hanged.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2006
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Re: Should all criminal laws in the U.S. be federal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante