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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
Ironman Jack Ironman Jack is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
There are some (on both sides) who view this as a first step to overturning RvW. There are many who opposed this law and dislike this opinion because for the first time since roe an antiabortion law with no "health of the mother" exception has been judged constitutional. The college of obgyns claims this procedure is sometimes the best choice for the health of the mother. Congress substituted their own judgement for the doctors and the supremes said that's OK.
Nice try, BUT they always could have had a medically approved Abortion, this just stops the fucking Liberal Euthanasia squads, from attempting to abort at will fort a Profit!

It cuts down on IRRESPONSIBLE sex of your Sodom and Gamorrah crowd and Planned Parenthood should be getting FURTHER cuts in Fed support.they didn't deserve in the first place!

Ginsberg acted real dignified, likwe a little ACLU whore and Hillary style asshole!

CRY you wimpy fucking Liberals, as that is just a step back into driving your asses underground or out of America!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Jerry View Post
Nice try, BUT they always could have had a medically approved Abortion, this just stops the fucking Liberal Euthanasia squads, from attempting to abort at will fort a Profit!

It cuts down on IRRESPONSIBLE sex of your Sodom and Gamorrah crowd and Planned Parenthood should be getting FURTHER cuts in Fed support.they didn't deserve in the first place!

Ginsberg acted real dignified, likwe a little ACLU whore and Hillary style asshole!

CRY you wimpy fucking Liberals, as that is just a step back into driving your asses underground or out of America!
Since I also supported the courts decision, allow me to immediately seperate myself from this disgusting and pointlessly insulting post; I would hate to find myself mentally included in the same group as this.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Rakkasan Rakkasan is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

although i am pro choice

i think this is a sound decision.....and i dont see how anyone can think partial birth abortion is a good thing
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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SamInTheSouth SamInTheSouth is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
Unless this procedure is needed to save the life of the mother, it's incredibly evil and barbaric.

Kramer
It's never a necessary procedure to save the life of a mother. That's a complete frabrication from the pro-death crowd.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
If I recall the debate in congress correctly, it was determined that only the most rare and bizarre of circumstances could this procedure be medically necessary for the health of the mother. But such circumstances could (and possible have at some point) existed.
Which is just another way of saying congress substituted their own judgement for that of the doctors.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
.......

To me, this is not the kind of scheme that will lead to overturning SCOTUS protection for abortion procedures. More anti-Roe appointments or a change of opinion on Roe by a sitting Justice can only do that.
That is exactly why this is now an issue energizing the pro-choice side.
It will be seen as a probing attack on ROE, and the appointment of another justice or two could move the court to where ROE is either overturned or gutted.

This issue was almost completely in the background in 2000 and 2004 for pro-choice voters, I think this moves it into the foreground in 2008.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by timj219 View Post
Which is just another way of saying congress substituted their own judgement for that of the doctors.
"Substituted the own judgement"? They certainly used their own judgement; that's their job: to use their judgement and create laws. That they listened to the testimony of an entire parade of medical professionals is right and proper. But in the end, it's the legislature that has to make the call on matters of law; not the doctors.

I can only think of two alternatives here:
Either (1) we forbid that congress pass any law keeping any doctor from doing anything because, after all, the doctors judgement is better than congress'. Or (2) we declare that a group of unelected doctors should henceforth make all the laws relating to doctors.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
"Substituted the own judgement"? They certainly used their own judgement; that's their job: to use their judgement and create laws. That they listened to the testimony of an entire parade of medical professionals is right and proper. But in the end, it's the legislature that has to make the call on matters of law; not the doctors.

I can only think of two alternatives here:
Either (1) we forbid that congress pass any law keeping any doctor from doing anything because, after all, the doctors judgement is better than congress'. Or (2) we declare that a group of unelected doctors should henceforth make all the laws relating to doctors.
I have another alternative. We stop voting for people who write laws that address style and ignore substance. This law will not prevent one single abortion. But it was politically expedient and gave the appearance of caring about the unborn so the medical realities were unimportant as far as congess was concerned.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Justice Ginsburg read a summary of her dissent from the bench when the decision was handed down. This little piece gives a capsule view of that summary.
Quote:
In an alarming decision, the Court today reverses the judgments other federal courts have uniformly made. Today's decision refuses to take Casey and Stenberg seriously. The Court's opinion tolerates, indeed applauds, federal intervention to ban nationwide a procedure found necessary and proper in certain cases by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. For the first time since Roe, the Court blesses a prohibition with no exception protecting a woman's health.

The Court asserts that its ruling furthers the Government's interest in “promoting fetal life.” But the Act scarcely furthers that interest, for it targets only a method of abortion. The woman may abort the fetus, so long as her doctor uses another method, one her doctor judges less safe for her. The Court further pretends that its decision protects women. Women might come to regret their physician-counseled choice of an intact D&E and suffer from “[s]evere depression and loss of esteem,” the Court worries. Notably, the solution the Court approves is not to require doctors to inform women adequately of the different procedures they might choose, and the risks each entails. Instead, the Court shields women by denying them any choice in the matter. This way of protecting women recalls ancient notions about women's place in society and under the Constitution — ideas that have long since been discredited.
Here is a transcript of the entire summary

The decision also contains an interesting warning from the furthest reaches of the right wing. Justices Thomas and Scalia wrote a concurring opinon which stated their belief that
Quote:
the Court's abortion jurisprudence...has no basis in the Constitution.
Justices Alito and Roberts did not join that concurrence but I personally believe they would not have been appointed if they did not feel the same way.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
stymie stymie is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

other than the death penalty, i can think of no one single issue that polarizes so distincly. there does seem to be a bit more grey in abortion debates though. zealot pro-choicers would tell you i can do any damned thing i want with my body and to hell with anyone telling me otherwise. equally zealot pro-lifers would have a child of 14, raped by her uncle, carry a pregnancy to it's conclusion. then there's a lot of us in the middle...the grey.....

....i'm pro-choice. mostly because it's none of my business. i could make a weak argument that if i'm the father, i get a say....but what if i'm the uncle that rapes? being the rookie here, i've no way of knowing, but my trick knee tells me there are few if any women here offering a perspective that none of us fate-determining males could possibly give.

but there's that grey area. the free thinkers like dilettante. the ones that call bullshit when they see it.

i happen to agree with the court's decision as well. partial birth abortion does seem barbaric to me. but, then again, what of the grey area of extreme retardation? or the saving the mother's life situation? one size shouldn't fit all.

(oh....and this is directed to no one else but jerry.....i'd point you to george carlin's view about this issue......."did you ever notice that the people that are so radically opposed to abortion you wouldn't want to fuck anyway?)

s, pro-choice, pro-court
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
varrussword varrussword is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
although i am pro choice

i think this is a sound decision.....and i dont see how anyone can think partial birth abortion is a good thing
Well murderers probably think abortion is a pretty good thing.

Varus
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
My Way News - Court Backs Ban on Abortion Procedure

My first impression of this is that it may be another nail in the coffin of the GOP's 2008 election hopes.

This is a massive wakeup call to Pro-Choice Republicans, that the anti-abortion plank is not just there to get enough votes to pass tax cuts, it's really there and these guys are really on the Supreme Court.

I'd say the Democrats just picked up 5 points in the Womens vote.
I don't see this as a problem. All this ruling do is affirm the original intent of Roe v Wade decision which actually placed restrictions on 2nd and third trimester pregenacies.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

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Originally Posted by varrussword View Post
Well murderers probably think abortion is a pretty good thing.

Varus
That is a strawman bordering on oxmoronism.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
Marcus1124 Marcus1124 is offline
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Typical how liberals constantly miss the point, whether you think their SHOULD be a constitutional right to an abortion is completely irrelevant to whether or not there IS ONE. There isn't, abortion, like most other issues of public policy is left by the constitutition to the people to settle through their democratically elected representatives. Don't like it? Don't bitch about judges accurately reading and applying the law (in this case the Constitution), bitch to your representative to CHANGE the law (in this case, by Amendment)
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
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Re: Supreme Court upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban

Whether you support this decision or not, we should have seen this coming when the law suits were filed. The very same arguements were rejected by every court in the land two years ago and again by all the courts this time including appelate courts in three states until it got to this revamped supreme court. This is nothing else but Roberts and especially Alito paying off their benefactor in putting them on the Court. no sane person will deny that these guys had to promise this vote to George II before their nomination was announced. Of course he did not ask them personally how they would vote on this matter but his staff sure as hell did. Now all we, and especially all women, can only wait for the other shoe to drop and hope that one of these neocons drops dead real soon after the next election.
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