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Old 07-02-2007
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Libby Pardon - questions

How does it compare to other presidential pardons? Just curious - it seems to me that most pardons come at the end of a presidential term. I don't recall any pardons for those close to the prez - didn't Agnew go to prison?

Anyone know the history?
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

Bush didn't pardon Libby. Right now Bush is saying Libby is guilty, but desn't have to serve time - there was a crime, but no time. He could still pardon Libby. A pardon would wipe his criminal record of this crime - no crime, no time.


Quote:
Bush commutes Libby's prison sentence

A commutation is a total right of the president and it cannot be challenged by any attorney or court. It means that Libby will still have the conviction on his record. Commutations are rarely granted.

A pardon is a much more complete eradication of a record which makes it appear as if the person has never been convicted. It's possible that Bush could still grant Libby a full pardon.
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Bush didn't pardon Libby. Right now Bush is saying Libby is guilty, but desn't have to serve time - there was a crime, but no time. He could still pardon Libby. A pardon would wipe his criminal record of this crime - no crime, no time.

True - my bad. How about commutation rather than pardon - since it was the jail time that was commuted. (Libby will still have 2 years probation - I suspect donations will take care of the fine).

How often does a prez commute sentences - that seems even more rare than pardons, actually.
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

There's no pardon involved. Therefore, comparisons to presidential pardons are less than useful.

Probably the closest case would be McDougal, if one wanted to continue this line.

Matt
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

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Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
There's no pardon involved. Therefore, comparisons to presidential pardons are less than useful.

Probably the closest case would be McDougal, if one wanted to continue this line.

Matt
Actually, I think Ollie North is probably closest. Wasn't part of his prison sentence commuted?
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

Nope - Ollie was set free - completely free - because the Congress was more interested in publicity than justice. They abused their subpoena powers, tainted all the evidence, and set North and Poindexter free.

No pardon or commutation involved.

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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

Wasnt a pardon. But is "special treatment".
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

I guess revealing CIA personel is not such a big deal.
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

Clinton Commutation Grants, January 2001

Clinton Pardon Grants, January 2001


Libby being high profile, I guess you could compare it to these other notables:
Notable Clemencies from Presidents Washington to George H.W. Bush
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
Nope - Ollie was set free - completely free - because the Congress was more interested in publicity than justice. They abused their subpoena powers, tainted all the evidence, and set North and Poindexter free.

No pardon or commutation involved.

Matt

Any commutations - particularly of WH insiders? It was the court that vacated North's sentence, I agree. This isn't s respite either - and most commutations don't include commuting the entire prison sentence (been busy googling). Do you know of any others?
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

I dont know about you, but when I fart that is only the pardon ever expected.
Libby needs to address the people with an apology or something. Show some acknowledgement.
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Old 07-02-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

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Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
Great links - thanks!!
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Old 07-12-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

I think the most notable feature of the commutation rather than the granting of a pardon to Libby lies in the fact that Libby retains his 5th Ammendment rights regarding the issue.

If Libby were granted a pardon, he'd have no grounds upon which to claim the 5th, and that could potentially endanger Cheney, Rove or Bush.
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Old 07-12-2007
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Re: Libby Pardon - questions

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Originally Posted by Dormouse View Post
I think the most notable feature of the commutation rather than the granting of a pardon to Libby lies in the fact that Libby retains his 5th Ammendment rights regarding the issue.

If Libby were granted a pardon, he'd have no grounds upon which to claim the 5th, and that could potentially endanger Cheney, Rove or Bush.
Exactly, a pardon would be like a grant of immunity, and he could be compelled to testify before Congress.

The pardon is coming, but he will effectively never suffer any punishment for his crime, rather he will reap rich rewards, like those other Republican perjurers, Ollie North and John Poindexter. Because in the GOP, lying to protect your boss is considered heroic stuff.
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