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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
How so? Did the T-shirt makers invade your house to get the name of the soldier? Since when is use of someone's name considered a privacy issue? They are serving in a publicly funded conflict, after all.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of "false light" as it pertains to the use of someone's name or likeness for commercial gain.

It absolutely is an invasion of privacy issue.

http://www.rcfp.org/handbook/c02p04.html

That said, such a claim is a civil tort, and the government should not be able to assert prior restraint to prevent the use of such a name.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of "false light" as it pertains to the use of someone's name or likeness for commercial gain.

It absolutely is an invasion of privacy issue.

Handbook: Invasion of Privacy: False light

That said, such a claim is a civil tort, and the government should not be able to assert prior restraint to prevent the use of such a name.

Matt
How does this put the dead soldier in a false light? And how will the soldier sue if he's dead? From what I understand, it just puts a soldier on a shirt in the light that he died. And if the soldier really died, how is that a false light? The rep in this article argued a different way:

Quote:
Rep. Jonathan Paton, R-Tucson, a backer of the measure, doesn't see it that way. He said because Frazier is selling his shirts for a profit means it is not constitutionally protected political speech.
I guess any anti-Bush movie with any profits should now be illegal, eh?

Quote:
But attorney Dan Barr said the question of whether someone makes money is legally irrelevant.
"The fact that these people died in Iraq is nothing more than a fact," Barr said. And he said listing their names on a T-shirt -- whether sold or given away -- doesn't change that.
So how does it place the soldier in a false light?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
No, I wouldn't be calling a lawyer. Why in the hell would you assume I would be?
ok, then its unethical to use someones name, let alone DECEASED someone, to fill your fucking bank account.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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ok, then its unethical to use someones name, let alone DECEASED someone, to fill your fucking bank account.
Maybe so, but that is irrelevant. We are discussing the BANNING of this, not the LISTING AS UNETHICAL of it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
So how does it place the soldier in a false light?
Actually, it is a case of misappropriation:

Misappropriation

The use of a person's name or likeness for commercial purposes without consent is misappropriation. The law protects an individual from being exploited by others for their exclusive benefit. A person's entire name need not be used. If the person could reasonably be identified, the misappropriation claim probably will be valid.11

Use of a photograph to illustrate a newsworthy story is not misappropriation. Even if a photo is used to sell a magazine on a newsstand, courts usually will not consider that a trade or commercial purpose. The line between news and commercial use is not always clear, however, and even photographs used to illustrate an article may create liability for misappropriation if the article is considered to have an overriding commercial purpose.12
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Maybe so, but that is irrelevant. We are discussing the BANNING of this, not the LISTING AS UNETHICAL of it.
Unethical AND illegal.

See my previous post.
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Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Beer View Post
Actually, it is a case of misappropriation:

Misappropriation

The use of a person's name or likeness for commercial purposes without consent is misappropriation. The law protects an individual from being exploited by others for their exclusive benefit. A person's entire name need not be used. If the person could reasonably be identified, the misappropriation claim probably will be valid.11

Use of a photograph to illustrate a newsworthy story is not misappropriation. Even if a photo is used to sell a magazine on a newsstand, courts usually will not consider that a trade or commercial purpose. The line between news and commercial use is not always clear, however, and even photographs used to illustrate an article may create liability for misappropriation if the article is considered to have an overriding commercial purpose.12
Link?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Link?
sorry. here you go: Handbook: Invasion of Privacy: Misappropriation
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

I hardly think disallowing someone to commercially use your name to sell something - is "banning free speech"
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
How does this put the dead soldier in a false light? And how will the soldier sue if he's dead? From what I understand, it just puts a soldier on a shirt in the light that he died. And if the soldier really died, how is that a false light? The rep in this article argued a different way:
If the use of the name is intended as an anti-war message, and that person did not hold that view, then it is portrayal in false light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
I guess any anti-Bush movie with any profits should now be illegal, eh?
Pro-Bush or anti-Bush is irrelevant. Commercial speech has always been subject to restrictions that non-commercial speech is exempt from.

Your guess is both incorrect and silly, but you are entitled to be both if you please.

Any way you cut it, though, both the false light and misappropriation complaints are civil torts. Passing a law preventing the sales of these shirts would seem to be over-reaching, since there is already a remedy at law for the problem.

Matt
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by Beer View Post
I have to say, I definitely disagree with that law. What if two people share the same name? Can one prevent the other from using it?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
If the use of the name is intended as an anti-war message, and that person did not hold that view, then it is portrayal in false light.
Are those dead soldiers anti-war? And how can it be portrayal in a false light unless it says "these soldiers oppose the war:..." ? If it just says they died, I don't think that portrays them as anti-war.
Quote:

Pro-Bush or anti-Bush is irrelevant. Commercial speech has always been subject to restrictions that non-commercial speech is exempt from.
Why is that?
Quote:
Your guess is both incorrect and silly, but you are entitled to be both if you please.
Why is that? If the movie is making a profit, are you saying it loses its first amendment abilities?
Quote:
Any way you cut it, though, both the false light and misappropriation complaints are civil torts. Passing a law preventing the sales of these shirts would seem to be over-reaching, since there is already a remedy at law for the problem.

Matt
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Are those dead soldiers anti-war? And how can it be portrayal in a false light unless it says "these soldiers oppose the war:..." ?
If it implies that the soldiers oppose the war, then it is casting a false light.

You seem to be repeatedly ignoring the point that these are civil torts, and that while the t-shirt proprietor might well be liable in civil court, this does not preclude them producing the shirts.

The legislation proposed is prior restraint, and that is a vary tough hurdle to get over in court.

Matt
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Are those dead soldiers anti-war? And how can it be portrayal in a false light unless it says "these soldiers oppose the war:..." ? If it just says they died, I don't think that portrays them as anti-war.Why is that?Why is that? If the movie is making a profit, are you saying it loses its first amendment abilities?
I don't understand where you want to go with this arguement. Matt has said several times that he thinks the passage of the law was wrong...he agrees with you.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2007
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Re: Some states seek to ban anti-war speech

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Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
If it implies that the soldiers oppose the war, then it is casting a false light.
I don't see it that way. I see it as dead soldiers being listed to point out that the war is bad, not to say "they oppose it." I think you're making a leap, here.
Quote:
You seem to be repeatedly ignoring the point that these are civil torts, and that while the t-shirt proprietor might well be liable in civil court, this does not preclude them producing the shirts.

The legislation proposed is prior restraint, and that is a vary tough hurdle to get over in court.

Matt
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