You start by saying you like the statistics I put up there, very impressive, then you end with saying you don't need my bullshit numbers.

You see, this is exactly the problem. You are emotionally tied to the issue.

My drug use is not important to this topic, but I will admit to having tried many drugs. I know people who have done every drug known to man. I know of people who currently use many types of drugs. Of all of the drugs, there are two that I have never seen anyone use regularly, without the drug destroying, or almost destroying their life. The two drugs are Crack and Meth.

I do not favor legalizing either of these two drugs, for two reasons. One is their danger, but two is the fact that people can make them themselves. You want crack, or meth, make it yourself.

No one here will argue that drugs are not bad for the user and often times those around the user. I am sure some of the traffic deaths were drug related, as it is common sense, but I have no idea what the percentage might be. While I understand how many people do not want people to have to suffer by being addicted to drugs and do not wish for innocent people around the drug user to suffer, prohibition is not the answer. PROHIBITION has TAKEN EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM ASSOCIATED WITH DRUG USE AND MADE THOSE PROBLEMS WORSE.

PERIOD.

This is common sense, to anyone who is able to look at the issue logically and without emotion.

How can you look at it without emotion if you have been in a bad situation or had a family member in one because of drugs. Bottom line is drugs are illegal for a reason. The government could make far more money off weed and coke than it ever could off of alchohol and tabacoo so why wouldn't it. That is the only reason those two are legal. So if that is the case why wouldn't they legalize at least weed. Do the math it is a bad drug just like the rest and we can only have so many legal drugs.

That's the strangest rationalization for designating certain drugs as illegal as I've ever read.

THE REASON MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE SMOKING IT.

NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.

To know why marijuana is illegal, one must actually do RESEARCH.

Don't worry, though, I don't expect you to actually have to do READING AND WORK.

You are correct. Marijuanas illegazation did have nothing to do with people smoking it. I can read too. That does nothing for the argument to legalize it. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. Where was your point in that statement. Weed is illegal for a reason. So are most other drugs. Obviously some have less radical effects on the human body and mind but they are drugs none the less. So is alcholol and nicotine which are both even more dangerous ttan most and that is why at one time alchohol was.

If you want to do your homework tell me why cocaine became illegal. And what the problem was with easy acess morphine.

Never said so, my reference was to the central American allusions you made. Please don’t make declarative statements based on something I never said please.

Until we come up with a cash crop that can sustain those folks in the same way or close to what Poppies do, we have to cut cards with the devil, and leave it be. Of course we burn some, trash farms collecting it, but we have decided to by and large ignore it.
The CIA never transported a thing for the traffickers, did they ignore such? Absolutely.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Why did cocaine become illegal? Gee, maybe it was because the government decided to try to stop people from hurting themselves, something they have no right to do.

Same with all opiates, including morphine. Codeine was available in many "elixers" in the late 1800s and was even available in cough syrup when I was a kid, over the counter. The stuff worked great.

Many women were getting hooked on these codeine "elixers" and I would bet that was a huge part of the problem. So, now we have kids huffing dangerous chemicals, instead of doing illegal drugs. So what has changed?

In a typical high school class in America today, the number of students engaging in risky behaviors is staggering: seven out of 30 kids are using drugs; 13 drink alcohol; six smoke cigarettes; and 10 are sexually active. Indeed, new data also shows that more than four in 10 adolescents have been offered drugs, and about one in four have been offered drugs at school.

ONE IN FOUR KIDS ARE OFFERED DRUGS AT SCHOOL.

That's 25%. What do you think the stats are for high school seniors alone?

Tell me, what has the prohibition of drugs accomplished? We spend 50 billion a year to help scumbags get rich and increase all forms of crime, violence, corruption, for what? To help discourage some people from doing drugs?

If 25% of all kids are offered drugs at school, then truly, how much worse would the drug problem be if they were legalized?

February 28, 2006 - Press Release - ONDCP

As to marijuana, the reason it is illegal is not because of racism, like many people think, it is because the 25,000 products that can be made from hemp would compete against other industries, especially the paper industry and the petro-chemical industry.

Why do you think the US is the ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED NATION IN THE WORLD WITHOUT AN ESTABLISHED HEMP CROP?

People like you will NEVER FLIPPING GET IT.

You want the government to protect people from themselves, but that is not their right to do so.

So, you mentioned alcohol prohibition. What problems did that cause? A huge increase in crime, especially violent crime. Corruption of the police and the courts, as well as elected officials. It gave an income to organized scumbags who placed little to no value on human life. Hmmmm, what does this remind me of?

Maybe if you learned from history, you would not be doomed to repeat past mistakes.

Bullshit.

The CIA has been DIRECTLY involved in the drug trade and has helped transport drugs.

If you did your research, yuo would already know this.

It is the worst kept secret in D.C.

As to Afghanistan, we have police and DEA agnets risking their lives to stop a drug that is being ALLOWED TO GROW IN A COUNTRY WE OCCUPY.

You can debate semantics and say we don't occupy Afghanistan, but that is a joke. Sure, we only have a small number of troops there, but we CONTROL the country.

We COULD wipe out the poppies if we wanted to, but we CHOOSE not to. Why? For stability? Seems likely and I understand the problems there, but if the war on drugs was REAL, we would not make such a compromise.

The war on drugs is a scam.

Only fools don't see that.

Do your research a little better. Commercial buissiness is the reason that weed is illegal. Race has nothing to do with it. That is how far your reading has taken you. All the way to nothing.

You say that I want the government to protect people from themselves. That means you believe people do not harm others due to their grug use. Just like driving under the influence of alchohol all other drugs impair your ability. Some drugs also make many people violent.

You are the one trying to repeat the past mistakes. I want to keep drugs illegal. You push to make them legal. Easy way to solve the problem of crime. Make everything legal. Why not?

Yeah codine did work great when you were a kid. Do you know the effects of long term use or overuse. I don't think you do. You don't know the effects of any of these drugs on the body. Maybe you are right. Just let everyone kill themselves by doing whatever makes them feel good. Thats ingenious. Get everyone addicted to a legal drug so the government can make money of people killing themselves instead of the drug dealers today.
Sorry most of the drug dealers of today that sell the most dangerous drugs are legal, regulated by the government, and pay them, That is the real reason some drugs are illegal. Not enough money in it for the right people.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem.

Why did I say marijuana is illegal? I said it DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

Jeesh, are you 12?

You said the reason marijuana is illegal is because of commercial business. What commercial business? The drug industry? Nope, has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

It is because of the many thousands of products that can be made from marijuana's cousin, hemp. If marijauna was legalized, then the government would have no excuse to keep hemp illegal and the thousands of products that can be made from hemp would compete against "established" industries.

I know very well what drugs do to people.

NEWSFLASH: The war on drugs isn't stopping people from ruining their lives with drugs. It is not stopping drug users from harming others. In fact, the war on drugs has INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF HARM DONE TO OTHERS BY DRUG USERS.


WAKE UP.

A story from CNN........

A new study finds U.S. teens are turning more and more to common household items to get high. Inhalants are the drug of choice for adolescents 12 to 17 years old according to a new report by The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration.

The survey estimates about one million adolescent Americans use inhalants. 12 and 13 year olds use them more often than marijuana. Inhalants are liquids, sprays and gases that are sniffed or inhaled to get high. They include common household products like aerosol air fresheners, hair sprays, paint solvents, and nail polish. according to the study, glue, shoe polish,and spray paints were among the most commonly used by adolescents 12 to 15. Inhalants or "huffing" can cause severe damage to major organs even death.

BUSINESS WEEK

In the past year, 3.4 percent of 12-year-olds report using an inhalant, while only 1.1 percent tried marijuana, and 2.7 percent took prescription painkillers. That trend continued with 13-year-olds, with 4.8 percent using inhalants, 4 percent trying marijuana, and 3.9 percent taking prescription painkillers. By age 14, inhalant use dropped behind the use of marijuana, painkillers and other drugs.

Among adolescents aged 12 to 13 who used illegal drugs, 45.5 percent used inhalants, while 36.5 percent used painkillers, 28.4 percent used marijuana, and 9.8 percent used other drugs, the report found.

However, among 14- and 15-year-olds who used drugs, 25.1 percent used inhalants, 34.2 percent used painkillers, 66.2 percent used marijuana, and 26.3 percent used other illegal drugs.

For 16- and 17-year-olds who used drugs, 12.4 percent use inhalants and 35.2 percent used painkillers, while 81.4 percent used marijuana and 34.2 percent used other illegal drugs, according to the report.

Forty-five percent of teens who used inhalants suffer from psychiatric disorders, compared with 29 percent of teens who used other drugs.

Although only 8 percent of people treated for drug abuse in 2006 were 12 to 17 years old, they represented 48 percent of hospital treatment for inhalant use alone or in combination with other drugs.

For Adolescents, Inhalants Are Drug of Choice

Yeah, that drug war sure is working wonders.

So, if all drugs should be illegal that get people high, then I guess we should make all of these illegal as well.............

* correcting fluid
* degreasers
* dry cleaning fluid
* felt tip markers
* gasoline
* glue
* paint remover
* paint thinner.

# deodorant
# fabric protector spray
# hair spray
# spray paint
# vegetable oil cooking spray

* ether
* chloroform
* halothane
* nitrous oxide
* butane (lighters)
* propane
* whipping cream containers that contain nitrous oxide.

Actually it was the Harrison Tax act that effectively stopped legal Cocaine use. It did the same for Heroin. Basically, this grew out of a desire to stop Opium use. They didn't actually outlaw the stuff, but instead taxed it so heavily no one could afford the legal drugs and the drugs went underground.
An interesting side note:
Heroin was trademarked by the Bayer Company for a Morphine substitute and Cocaine was a Merck product. Both, of course were quite legal. Around the turn of the century there were even Cocaine "kits" available to the consumer.

__________________
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Interesting, but I see little difference between what you said and what I said. It is all about the government trying to pass legislation to stop people from harming themselves.

It can't be done. People will sniff fumes from deadly chemicals, or even from gasoline, if they want to get high badly enough.

Should we outlaw gasoline?

Not asking you, I am just saying that it is impossible to stop people from getting high in a free society.

Making drugs illegal has done nothing but make drug problems worse. Anyone who supports the continuation of the war on drugs is simply not capable of LOGIC and REASON.

PERIOD.

I just tossed that in as an item of interest. But also to show it was an effort to make money off drugs, and NOT to cleanse the populace of a horrible scourge, as it is considered today.
It was all about Opium dens at first, primarily because of the public backlash over the rumors that the Chinese who frequented those dens were raping White women while stoned. There wasn't much crime or massive addictions from using the stuff back then. Shame was the biggest deterrent to drug use then.
The government doesn't really give a shit about our health or well-being. If they did, that cash cow, Tobacco would be at the top of their hit list, followed closely by alcohol.
But both are VERY big revenue streams for the government. That should tell people something right there.

__________________
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Excellent points.

I read a book some 15 years ago titled "America's Longest War: Rethinking the War on Drugs", a great book, with more footnotes than any other book I have ever seen for it's size, it started off every chapter with a quote. One of those quotes was quite simple,........

"If the reason to make some drugs illegal is to keep people from harming themselves and others, then it is obvious that the wrong drugs are illegal."

If you add up alcohol related deaths and tobacco related deaths, illegal drugs are nothing in comparison. Add in all the problems caused by alcohol, to those around the user and drug problems pale in comparison.

Some people just don't seem to get these simple facts. The war on drugs is more immoral than the drugs themselves.