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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by Jason Marcel View Post
If the big litmus test on the right is abortion, than they must vote for her since she went with the Bush admin's pro-life position on the use of public funds to foreign organizations.
I don't believe in litmus tests and very very very few dem nominees answer questions on that, rep. picks do because the msm fed by the political ambulance chasers like Schumer et al kills them if they don't...as I said, maybe you want to read a few books on past judicial nominations and conformations hearings and votes.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
If that doesn't happen until 2011, do you think all 29 Republican Senators will oppose the confirmation of Obama's nominee?
har de har har...
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
Oh, really?

Please provide absolutely any kind of evidence that any liberal has ever said that everyone successful is born into it.
I was exagerating of course.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
Maybe. But he's making absurd generalizations based on a few individuals. If I grab a couple of blue collar minorities with high IQs that have worked their asses of their entire lives and have virtually nothing to show for it, I'd be a moron if I tried to suggest that this is somehow indicative of a flaw in conservative thinking.
Not sure what that has to do with conservative thinking. If you work your ass off your entire life and have nothing to show, you are dumb. Its not just about working hard. Its not about manual labor, which I think is what you are getting at. That is the flaw in liberal thinking, that if you dont do manual labor, you arent working.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

It's a solid pick politically.

I agree with Imperator that she's technically not the first Hispanic justice....she is the first Hispanic female justice, though....so new ground is still being broken.

What's more important than her ethnic background is the political ramifications of the Hispanic population of the country feeling represented to some degree in the justice system. I'm not sure that they got the same feeling about Alberto Gonzalez...

Again, politically, this is a solid pick. There's almost no way the Republicans can stifle her confirmation without incurring damage. That is...unless there is some huge skeleton in her closet that is unknown as of yet.

The net effect of this on future supreme court decisions is probably about nil. Sotomayor replacing Souter is pretty much an even swap.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
It's a solid pick politically.

I agree with Imperator that she's technically not the first Hispanic justice....she is the first Hispanic female justice, though....so new ground is still being broken.

What's more important than her ethnic background is the political ramifications of the Hispanic population of the country feeling represented to some degree in the justice system. I'm not sure that they got the same feeling about Alberto Gonzalez...

Again, politically, this is a solid pick. There's almost no way the Republicans can stifle her confirmation without incurring damage. That is...unless there is some huge skeleton in her closet that is unknown as of yet.

The net effect of this on future supreme court decisions is probably about nil. Sotomayor replacing Souter is pretty much an even swap.


I agree with that but that is because the msm has lost focus of degree of left or right unless it’s a con. nominee, she is I fear further left than souter, it certainly appears that way, but the band is already playing the moderate song, because they want her in so lets not expect any real msm scrutiny, she is a ‘moderate’ and so shall she remain short of pissing on Lincolns leg at the monument.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

any supreme court nomination is just like the constitution. it can be debated ad nauseum, and there are no defined standards, there are no concrete conclusions.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I agree with that but that is because the msm has lost focus of degree of left or right unless it’s a con. nominee, she is I fear further left than souter, it certainly appears that way, but the band is already playing the moderate song, because they want her in so lets not expect any real msm scrutiny, she is a ‘moderate’ and so shall she remain short of pissing on Lincolns leg at the monument.
you realize that msm is a myth, don't you?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I agree with that but that is because the msm has lost focus of degree of left or right unless it’s a con. nominee, she is I fear further left than souter, it certainly appears that way, but the band is already playing the moderate song, because they want her in so lets not expect any real msm scrutiny, she is a ‘moderate’ and so shall she remain short of pissing on Lincolns leg at the monument.
What exactly has she done that could characterize her as a radical?

Chances are, if she's got a long a record as she has and no one can establish a pattern of a radical agenda, it's hard to argue that she's not a moderate.

It's highly unlikely that a person of her experience is going to completely change their stripes.....
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
well, they didn't waste any time, and she is not the first Hispanic btw, Cardozo was, but anyway, let the games begin.
Good catch on knowing your history. But I don't really think he'd be deemed 'countable' by popular opinion. His roots are neither Latin American nor of the way people view what is Hispanic today (gentile stock). He's of Sephardic Jewish origin from Portugal via their flights through other European nations that accepted them when being purged from the Iberian Peninsula.

Quote:
Born in New York City to Albert and Rebecca Nathan Cardozo, Benjamin was a twin, with his sister Emily. Some of Cardozo's ancestors were Portuguese Jews who immigrated to Britain's North American colonies in the 1740s and 1750s from Portugal[1] via the Netherlands and England. The surname Cardozo (Cardoso) is of Portuguese origin. . . .
Benjamin N. Cardozo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History of the Jews in Portugal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This reminds me of the allegations that Obama is not really the first black POTUS and that Warren G. Harding was given it's now pretty much been shown that he had some distant West Indian black ancestors. Technically, the allegations are probably true and Obama isn't the first POTUS having black ancestry in his family tree. But given Harding was a 'passer' of mostly white blood and presented himself as white and/or never admitted he had black ancestry in his family tree, he won't ever get credit for being the first black POTUS.
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Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 05-26-2009 at 02:45 PM.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
I don't think he really counts as Hispanic, given his roots are not Latin American but of Sephardic Jewish origin from Portugal via their flights through other European nations that accepted them when being purged from the Iberian Peninsula.

History of the Jews in Portugal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Benjamin N. Cardozo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
O'Sullivan,

I think we have to ditch the technicalities in this case. Some guy named Cardozo, back in the early part of the 20th century is most certainly going to be perceived as Hispanic....even if his roots don't directly trace that way (although one would have to wonder how he got the name Cardozo if he had no hispanic bloodline. If they took on the surname artificially to avoid persecution, I didn't see that mentioned in the bio).

Appointing a guy named Cardozo to the Supreme Court in the 1920's is certainly more groundbreaking than naming a woman named Sotamayor in 2009.

I really doubt seizing the prize for firsts is what the Obama administration is going for. They should be happy to claim the first "hispanic female" justice and leave it at that. Politically, the perception is a win for them either way.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

OMG, are you still talking about the Hispanic thing?

I'll clear this up for you guys. (These are for US use)

Black = African (even if you're from the Dominican Republic and just look African)
Hispanic = Brown skin but cannot pass as black or white
white = Duh
Asian = slanted eyes/dark hair/usually smart

Now that we're on the same page, lets discussing something that matters.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
OMG, are you still talking about the Hispanic thing?

I'll clear this up for you guys. (These are for US use)

Black = African (even if you're from the Dominican Republic and just look African)
Hispanic = Brown skin but cannot pass as black or white
white = Duh
Asian = slanted eyes/dark hair/usually smart

Now that we're on the same page, lets discussing something that matters.
i never knew that Indians were hispanic.

nice try.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

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Originally Posted by htperr6565 View Post
i never knew that Indians were hispanic.

nice try.
No, those are Muslims, duh.


edit: However, an Indian in a construction worker outfit or a maids outfit can easily be mistaken for Hispanic.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2009
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re: Sotomayor chosen as SC nominee (academic discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
O'Sullivan,

I think we have to ditch the technicalities in this case. Some guy named Cardozo, back in the early part of the 20th century is most certainly going to be perceived as Hispanic....even if his roots don't directly trace that way (although one would have to wonder how he got the name Cardozo if he had no hispanic bloodline. If they took on the surname artificially to avoid persecution, I didn't see that mentioned in the bio).
I've never heard of Hispanics calling him as one of their own. Even technically speaking, he's not Hispanic. To be Hispanic you have to have roots from Latin America and his roots do not. Simply being Spanish or Portuguese does not apply because those nations are in Europe. Hispanics do not consider Spanish and Portuguese people to be Hispanic and vice versa. It's akin to saying a British person is equivalent to Canadians, etc.

Sephardic Jews spread all over the place when being expelled and persecuted in the Iberian Peninsula--Europe, North Africa, Ottoman Empire, and even the American colonies, as in Cardozo's case. Cardozo's ancestry started in the US back before the American colonies became independent, which has nothing in common with today's Hispanic population, and he identified himself as Jewish as did society and still does today. Just as one example, the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law is the law school of Yeshiva University in NYC, a Jewish university.

Quote:
By 1776 and the War of Independence, around 2,000 Jews lived in America, most of them Spanish and Portuguese Jews (Sephardic Jews). They played a significant role in the struggle for independence, including fighting against the British (the first Jew to die during the War was Francis Salvador). David Salisbury Franksan, aide-de-camp of Benedict Arnold, suffered from his association with the traitorous general despite loyal service in both the Continental Army and the American diplomatic corps. Jews also played a key role in financing the Revolution, with the most important of the financiers being Haym Salomon.[5]

President George Washington remembered the Jewish contribution when he wrote to the Sephardic congregation of Newport, Rhode Island, in a letter dated August 17, 1790: "May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in the land continue to merit and enjoy the goodwill of the other inhabitants. While everyone shall sit safely under his own vine and fig-tree and there shall be none to make him afraid."

Jews (particularly Sephardic Jews) have over a 300 year history in Charleston, South Carolina.[6] Charleston had, until around 1830, the largest and wealthiest colony of Jews in North America [9].
History of the Jews in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Other examples of Sephardic Jews in American history include people like Judah P. Benjamin, the Confederate Secretary of State and War and Attorney General during the American Civil War, who with his family sought out the Sephardic Jewish community in South Carolina mentioned above as a destination when arriving in the US.

Quote:
Judah Philip Benjamin was born a British subject in Saint Thomas, during the British occupation of the Danish West Indies (now U.S. Virgin Islands), to Phillip Benjamin, an English Jew, and his wife, Rebecca Mendes, a Portuguese Jew.[1] He emigrated with his parents to the U.S. several years later and grew up in North and South Carolina. In 1824, his father was one of the founders of the first Reform congregation in the United States, the "Reformed Society of Israelites for Promoting True Principles of Judaism According to Its Purity and Spirit" in Charleston. . . .
Judah P. Benjamin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Popular opinion has always identified them as Jews because they are Jews and they self-identify themselves as such.
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Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 05-26-2009 at 05:51 PM.
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