Considering they control most of what happens in this nation, I don't think it really matters at this point.

Well, that's a problem with existing law, obviously. An example of shitty laws being used as excuses for more shitty laws. Unless they tripped on a mantrap or you previously agreed to be liable for their retardation, they should be fucked unless they're ensured for this kind of thing.I'd say that LLCs would be necessary in an environment of mind-numbingly retarded laws, but since we're discussing corporations and liability, I don't see why we should limit ourselves to the assumption of stupid laws.

Not to mention the pay cut.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

Don't like it?

Chew on this, the constitution does not mention the word corporation or corporations anywhere in it's text. http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...ranscript.html (control F)
Anything that is NOT covered by the constitution is covered by your STATE government. Call up your state congress rep and demand a law stating corporations are not people. They WILL be much more reachable than your US congress reps who actually would have no say in it.

Interstate commerce is covered in the constitution, as well as international trade. And I believe, most state representatives I know would laugh at the idea of a corporation running for office and assume I was drunk for even bringing up the subject.

But I'm curious, if you think corporations are the same as people, how come their tax rate is one flat rate?

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

I don't think corporations are the same as people, but the SCOTUS has ruled for over 130 years that corporations are a kind of person.

They're a state chartered group of people. And groups of people do have certain rights.

What separates corporations, at least publicly traded corporations, from private companies is access to equity capital of millions of people world-wide.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

They're not. They have been afforded the rights they want by lobbying the US government and by bringing cases to the SCOTUS. These of course are the rights they want. They don't want to pay the types of taxes we do, of course.

Interstate commerce has nothing to do with corporate personhood. A business with or without personhood could have the rights to operate over state borders.

Do what? They pay income taxes at one flat rate, which is virtually the only difference in their taxes and everybody elses. They also pay property taxes, road use taxes, and every other tax you and I pay.

Interstate commerce is the only reason Congress is authorized to regulate their business or any individual person's business.

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

I guess you have never heard of Corporate tax breaks, off-shore shelf corporations, etc. Corporations get between 150-200 Billion in tax breaks every year. And that is probably a low figure.

And that has to do with personhood in what way?

Warren Buffett, either richest or second richest Dem in the country, has accumulated billions by being very wise toward taxes. In fact, he gears his whole investment strategy around paying very little in taxes. Based upon your post, you assume only corporations are smart enough to avoid income taxes to the best of their abilities. After all, don't individuals pay their CPA fees based upon how much taxes they're forced to pay the IRS? Right.



That was a reaction to your reaction to a post I made in response to Dis. If you react to this response, it'll made the forth degree removed.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

Oh I know, but that is another can o' worms. Actually quite similar, since many of the super rich are CEO's anyway and therefore have as much pull.


But it still didn;t have anything to do with personhood (just had to, to make it to the 4th).

Corporations ARE NOT people, they are treated as secular entities from the people who invest in and are employed to run them.

The idea that corporations are people is nothing more then a laymans term to give some sort of concept to non-accountants or non-business savy people an idea to the structure of the corporation.

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Sic Semper Tyrannis






http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

I find it astounding how people have a opinion about corporate America but yet they don't even know what a corporation actually is.

Extremely typical.

This is exactly why the fucking idiots hate big business and capitalism because they don't understand how it works.

Far too many people believe the businesses' equity is the owners equity and use that as justification to hate big business and rich people. That's not how it works at all. A corporation is its own "entity" not really its own "person." The corporation is secular from its owners or investors.

__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis






http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

Wow, thanks for summing that up.

No, Corporations are not people, you and I know that, but your US Supreme Court does not. Corporations have been told they cannot lobby, so they sued the government claiming 1st amendment rights, or a PERSON's freedom of speech. They won. Corporations have been subject to surprise searches by the SEC and EPA among other government bodies, and have sued claiming 4th amendment rights against search and seizure, and they won.

If you did not know, in the US constitution or the bill of rights, the words corporation and company are not found. That means that corporations are NOT protected under the US constitution yet they have been granted those rights by the US Supreme court based upon a mistake in the court transcripts of an 1886 court case.

Corporations are given the ability to price fix, to monopolize markets, to pollute, to even kill people, all in the pursuit of profits.

Taxation without representation. This is what American revolutionists cried out in the 1770's....... Why would they say that? They were being taxed unfairly and Brittain's pet company, the East India Company, was given tax breaks upon tax breaks in order to make them more profitable.

Here are some interesting facts from Unequal Protection, by Thom Hartmann

Did you know, in 1956 Corporations paid 28 percent of US tax revenue. By 1996 that was 11.8 percent.

Did you know in 1955, Family income tax was 17.3 percent of the median family income, and in 1996 it was 37.6.

The share of property taxes paid by corporations in 1957 was 45 percent, and in 1995 (despite corporations owning much more property) that number in 1996 was 16 percent.

During Reagan's first year of Tax Reforms, GE received a tax rebate.

Between 1996 and 1999, 41 of America's largest corporations earned 25.8 billion in profits, yet they did not just avoid paying taxes, they actually received 3.2 billion in rebates.

Enron was able to pay no federal taxes in 4 out of the 5 years prior to the implosion, in 2000 they were able to convert a potential tax bill into a 278 million dollar refund.

According to the US General Accounting Office, almost a third of all large corporations paid no income tax at all between 1989 and 1995 (the last year such a study was done), and more than 60 percent of those companies paid less than 1 million in taxes.

According to a 1996 report from the cato institute, businesses in the US receive direct tax subsidies of over 75 billion annually, that equates to about 750 dollars from every american household, going directly to big business

That last point is a good segway, where do you think all of the lost revenue, or those rebate checks, come from?

You might be under the impression that corporations paying less taxes create jobs, well there is absolutely no evidence to prove that, and there is proof that corporations have had not only tax breaks, but subsidies and tax rebates, and still jobs are leaving the US.

Yes, I am against BIG business, because it is unAmerican in the most extreme way.

So, let me ask you this, do YOU understand how big business works?