I see you're convinced that business is evil anyway you look at it so I'm not going to even bother going any further with this.

You act as if businesses abduct people, force them into slavery and neglect them to the point of death.

You sir are being WAY to melodramatic, you know you're exaggerating whats actually going on claiming corporations are "murdering" people yet you continue to spew the shit.

I guess it is too much to expect unbias truth around here.

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You obviously don't know the first thing about business, how its run and why they get the tax breaks they do.

NOW please show me which specific tax break(s) you have a problem with. To me they're all justified and have a purpose and that purpose isn't designed to fatten the pockets of the business owners, THOSE BREAKS ARE DESIGNED TO HELP KEEP THE BUSINESS INDEPENDENTLY A FLOAT.

Businesses would FAIL without those tax breaks.

Furthermore the FACTS are businesses aren't as lucrative as your typical layman might think or appear.

Businesses get tax breaks for the same reason parents get tax beaks/cuts/credits for their children.

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Never said all corporations are evil, I said they are not people and do not have a conscious, and do not have morals, and only seek to profit. Is that wrong?

Corporations do not force people into slavery, they force them to work for substandard wages in many countries.

In 1998 the FBI estimated robberies and burglaries cost the US about 4 Billion dollars.

That must be a lot worse than corporate misbehavior, according to you.

In 1998 Securities Scams and fraud ran over 15 billion dollars.
In 1998 Insurance and corporate fraud found on Insurance/HMO/hospital Billings runs between 100 and 400 Billion every year.

Then we can take into account Madoff, Enron, the Savings and Loans scandals, etc.

Talking about murder,

In 1998, 19,000 people were murdered in the US at the hands of other people.

Much worse than corporations, right?

In 1998, 56,000 people dies from WORK-RELATED Disease like asbestos caused black lung, and many times that number died from "silent violence of pollution, contaminated food, hazardous consumer products, and hospital malpractice" Quote from Corporate Crime Reporter

Want a specific example?

In 1998, a large meatpacking company replaced a refridgeration unit on one of their processing lines. Shortly after,the detectors they have in place on the line to find deadly bacteria like Listeria monocytogenes started to react, indicating high levels of contamination.
The company's response was immediate. "The tests started coming up positive, so they stopped testing" - Caroline Smith DeWaal, Center of Science in the Public Interest "This company's 4th amendment right to privacy blocked surprise inspections by the government".
The detectors were turned off for a full month before the CDC used fingerprinting and DNA to trace it to that particular plant, causing a massive recall. During that month, hundreds of people became very ill, and 21 people died.

Their executive decision cost 21 people their lives. They made a choice to keep selling product they knew could and probably would kill people. Their punishment for MURDERING 21 people? A 200,000 dollar fine.

Info sourced from Unequal Protection, Thom Hartmann.

I listed out a bunch of tax breaks. I have a problem with them all. Corporations don't need tax breaks. If they cannot survive without them, then they don't need to be in business. If I can't afford my home, I lose it. If I can't make it without tax breaks, I don't make it.

If a corporation cannot survive without subsidies, then what makes them worse than those on welfare?

Businesses are not that lucrative? Oh, I guess all those CEO's and other executives making hundreds of millions are a figment of my imagination. Businesses threaten to leave town and get tax breaks. Businesses say they want to open a new location in a state and get tax breaks. Sometimes these tax breaks amount to over 300k per job created.

You've bought into the BS corporations want you to believe, that corporations are the backbone of the US, more important than the people. That's a good boy

Now, I've listed a lot of facts and figures and all you can say is "You obviously don't know the first thing about business".

How about coming up with something substantial?

Henry Ford, even with better wages than his competition, made hundreds of millions of dollars in the 20's and 30's, and paid higher taxes than companies do now.

GM was a powerhouse in the 1950's, paid higher taxes and made less cars then, look at them now.

Write to your representative, and tell them you are leaving the district if you don't get a huge tax break, or better yet, tell them you can't make it without a sizable tax rebate or break. Tell me how that works out for you.

Your understanding of the aspect of business is extremely ignorant and naive.

If I were you I would read "accounting made simple" and "book keeping made simple" and ONLY then (if capable) will you understand what I'm talking about.

The reality is the corporation and small business pay 100x more in taxes then the individual does.

Until you read up on accounting your loathing of big business is unwarranted and unjustified.

I mean a fantastic example of this would be currant assets...

Go read about currant assets pertaining to business and see why companies get "tax breaks" on those assets.

Go read about depreciation of fixed/plant assets and why they get tax beaks on those assets.

Its a about value, balance and viability.

__________________
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http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

And I suggest you read;
"Buying of the president, 2004"
"Good to Great" (regarding companies that do well and do NOT depend on tax breaks)
"The Great Unraveling"
"Unequal Protection"
All of the above are FILLED with great information and lots of statistics.

And I have others if you are interested. I wasn't even talking about tax breaks that can be compared to Personal Tax breaks. In retrospect, that is fair to allow companies the same type of tax breaks as persons, not more though. I was talking about tax breaks as a result of lobbying, or threatening to leave, or what have you. Tax breaks that you and I would never get. Corporations and small businesses do not pay 100X more into taxes, if you read my posts that you are trying to argue with, you'd see the actual figures in there.

I don't loathe big business, I loathe the influence and the inequality.

I'm actually well aware of accounting practices, such as the one Warren Buffett called the white house to end (under GEEDUB) which allowed corporations to inflate their bottom line by handing out stock options to execs. basically it is fabricated profit, but completely legal. Or how in the late 1980's and into the 1990's, Tobacco companies spent over 30 million dollars in donations to both republican and democratic politicians and their parties. In 1997, Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich inserted a single sentence into that years tax law bill. That single sentence granted the tobacco industry a 50 Billion dollar tax break.

Or another fact, from the buying of the president, 2004,
A large national bank gave the DNC a $3.5M line of credit at a very low interest rate 2 weeks after Democrats helped push through the 1994 Fair Trade in Financial Services Act, a law that netted that same bank $50 million dollars a year in savings.

Funny how that works huh.

Want to pull some facts from your book and argue, go ahead.

The sad fact is, Big businesses DO influence our government in a negative way. Again, if they cannot survuve without the excess tax breaks and tax rebates, they shouldn't be in business, we should not have to subsidize our corporations to keep them afloat.

The bold proves you don't understand much of anything.

In an economy where people get paid 1 dollar and hour, the cost of living will be MUCH lower then in a country where someone makes 10 dollars and hour.

Do you comprehend that?

Why do you think illegal aliens come here for a few years, work and then head back to Mexico with their new found fortune for?

The American dollar is worth 5x more in Mexico then it is here..... Why you think that is?

Whats the difference between making 1 dollar an hour and 10 dollars an hour if both get you a candy bar and a t-shirt????????????????????

I think first you need to UNDERSTAND ECONOMIES AND THE CONCEPT OF MONEY.

After that you can start bitching.

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Furthermore paying people poorly is fucking stupid. If your a corporation you want to pay your employees fairly [based on the economy] BECAUSE those people BUY your fucking product, hence the more money they have the more they will spend.

The only way around this is through outsourcing BUT the unions are responsible for that so you can blame your self.

Heres a hint... When you can survive nicely on 15 bucks an hour for remedial work, its a bad fucking idea to demand 35 bucks an hour because the corporation will tell you to go fuck our self, pack up and move their business somewhere else where the employees arent GREEDY. AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO MOVE THEIR BUSINESS WHERE THEY WANT.

And yes Americans are GREEDY AS FUCK.

People like you think jocking a fucking cash register is worth 25 bucks an hour and profit sharing ALL BECAUSE some fucking CEO is making 10 million a year.

Its absolutely pathetic.

OH and learn supply and demand too, thats something your opinions have NEVER accounted for.

__________________
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http://www.myspace.com/swoop187muzic

Ok, let's try this again;

In a country where the worker get's paid 1 dollar an hour, the poor wages are 1.50 an hour,

Do YOU comprehend that?


I'm not comparing dollars to dollars as if the foreign workers are making 30 cents in America, never said that. Never stated that the cost of living is the same as in the US. Are you keeping up?

Congressman Bernie Sanders, Vermont stated WTO free trade agreements "Would benefit the poorest people in the developing world. Really? Since the passage of NAFTA, more than 1 million more Mexicans (in mexico) work for less than the minimum wage of $3.40 per day, and 8 million Mexicans have fallen from the middle class into poverty."

Comprendo?

He went further, "The Free Press mentions that fabric and apparel factories employ 60 percent of the industrial work force in Pakistan. True. But the Free Press forgets to mention that while the apparel industry in America has been decimated, and tens of thousands of jobs have been lost here, the average Pakistani worker is paid 25 cents an hour. The free press may think that the Tommy Hilfiger company is producing shirts in pakistan because they want to help the poor people there. I think they're there because they can pay slave wages and increase their profit margin."

The CIA world FactBook says the average income in Pakistan is 2500 dollars. At 25 cents an hour, the average worker would need to work 200 hundred hours a week to make an average income. That's just over 28 hours a day if your counting.

You act as if these people should be grateful we are throwing pennies at them, when in reality YOU are not taking into account that they do have a standard of living that is higher than the wages our corporations are paying them.

I'm against Unions as well. So even this argument does not hold water. Where did I state everyone should make 25 bucks an hour? I spent a week arguing against that on this board. Would you stop making assumptions?

Here's an even better Idea, form your own opinions based upon real hard FACTS. Accounting "practices" is based upon a method of book keeping, not quite as hard of a fact as the CIA world factbook.

Nice try though. My opinions? What about the list of facts that I have listed in multiple quotes that you refuse to take into account? Anything? Reality too hard to swallow?

Here's supply and demand for ya,

The rolling blackouts of California, where excutives were tape recorded when calling the power control room, telling them to shut off the power. The results was demand skyrocketed and the corporations made billions in profits, and so kept the blackouts coming.

Oil refining companies in the US have not built a new refinery in over 20 years. Oil consumption has increased but as the supply has stayed the same..... yes you get it, demand has risen and supply has stayed the same means higher cost and therefore higher profits.

NO SHIT...

You want to get pissed? get pissed at the right people, the fucking tree huggers.

We have oil reserves here in the US, were not tapping them because of environmentalists and the liberal government.

Once again LIBERALS are the problem.

If it was me I would say "drill the fuck out of the ground" and provide people with affordable gas..

Get with the program man. Its the fucking bureaucrats that are the problem and most of these bureaucrats are liberals.

For once in my life I would love to see someone publicly say "FUCK YOU" to the bitch liberal bureaucrats.

Oh and of course the ONLY FUCKING reason why the liberal bureaucrats pander to these fucking special interest groups is for fucking votes.

Its absolutely insane.

__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannis






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I'm not pissed, actually. It was entertaining for a bit but now it's just annoying.

Asx for the part in Bold, read what I wrote, then read what you wrote. We have the supply of raw materials. We have no way to process enough to meet increased demand. We need to build more oil refineries. Without drilling in Alaska, we have enough supply in the world to meet demand including growth for 250 years.

The "Fucking tree huggers"? They are the ones who are closest to the point without actually hitting it. Corporations need to act responsibly and not destroy the environment in the pursuit of profits. However Tree huggers miss the mark and go to "no tree can ever be cut down and no animal should be harmed" blah blah blah. There needs to be balance. Our industries should try not to cause harm to the environment by all means.

Get with the program? Now you are claiming that the libs are the blame for everything. Let me give you a clue without pointing back to the facts I already listed, BOTH parties take major donations and get whatever they want in return. Liberals are NOT the only ones selling favors for votes.

Buying into the "Liberals did X" and "Conservatives did Y" BS just allows the power to slide back and forth between two bought and paid for parties.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently you buy into the Republican slightly conservative view. If you actually consider what a conservative view means, small government, that is exactly what I am for. Small as in subsidies for NO ONE except the very few who will actually starve to death without them. And corporations are the LAST ones who should get subsidies. However there are no true small government republicans any more. They're all paid in full by big business, just like all the Libs and some of the independents.

Yes we do, in the past interested parties have attempted to develop and build more refineries but have bumped heads with the tree huggers and politican bureaucrats who couldn't pass up the opportunity to pander and get some coverage, you know The Blago type.


So you claim these corporations are intentionally harming the environment?

Yes industry pollutes but that's the cost of shit like manufacturing everything you own and providing jobs.

Fuck technology right?

Lets neglect everything we learned collectively as a species so we don't destroy the planet with our awful pollution.

HA, you promise free shit to all and the lazy and unwanted will come in droves with their hands out. I don't see conservatives offering free shit for votes.

Look what happened when that crazy bitch promised to pick up the tab at that Wal Mart a few weeks ago. I would bet anything those people were ALL Obama supporters... Geez

I'm not for conservatives, they just happen to be the lesser of the two major evils.

Both sides go way to far.

My opinion is your of the ilk that loathes the rich for the simple fact they have more then you. You obviously feel you've been fucked over in life or aren't meeting the demands of your 5-year plan and want someone to blame.

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