If Corporations are People can they run for office? - Page 7 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Politico · #91 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

Yes we do, in the past interested parties have attempted to develop and build more refineries but have bumped heads with the tree huggers and politican bureaucrats who couldn't pass up the opportunity to pander and get some coverage, you know The Blago type.

Your statement contradicts itself, first you say we do have the capacity, then you state when people tried to develop more refineries.....

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So you claim these corporations are intentionally harming the environment?

If it comes down to spending money to clean up their mess, or adding to the bottom line, which do you think they will do?

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Yes industry pollutes but that's the cost of shit like manufacturing everything you own and providing jobs.

Fuck technology right?

Lets neglect everything we learned collectively as a species so we don't destroy the planet with our awful pollution.

Oh not quite, it's called being responsible. It does not have to be an extreme one way or the other.

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HA, you promise free shit to all and the lazy and unwanted will come in droves with their hands out. I don't see conservatives offering free shit for votes.

Lol, Conservatives don't offer free shit to people for votes, they offer free shit to corporations for money. Both very bad ideas.

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Look what happened when that crazy bitch promised to pick up the tab at that Wal Mart a few weeks ago. I would bet anything those people were ALL Obama supporters... Geez

Yeah most likely.

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I'm not for conservatives, they just happen to be the lesser of the two major evils.

Ahh, not really the way to address the issues. We need change, and not the BS BO promised, we need real change in the way government is run. Neither side, including the current shade of conservatives will act against the corporations that paid their way into office.

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Both sides go way to far.

Exactly my pont.

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My opinion is your of the ilk that loathes the rich for the simple fact they have more then you. You obviously feel you've been fucked over in life or aren't meeting the demands of your 5-year plan and want someone to blame.

Nope. The problem is there are hundreds of millions of americans, and billions of other people, who have been fucked over by the rich. Power and money corrupts.

The very intention of this thread was to push the boundaries of how far corporations have gone already. They exist to make profits, that's all. They do not need rights, they do not need special favors.

Swoop187 · #92 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politico

Your statement contradicts itself, first you say we do have the capacity, then you state when people tried to develop more refineries.....

What the fuck is so hard to understand about this?

EVERYONE knows they [interested parties] have tried in the past to build more oil refineries but bumped heads with the tree hugger environmentalists.

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If it comes down to spending money to clean up their mess, or adding to the bottom line, which do you think they will do?

Sorry but the corporations pay for their own waste disposal.

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Oh not quite, it's called being responsible. It does not have to be an extreme one way or the other.

Dont ever type the word "responsible" ever again, You and your liberal party are "RESPONSIBLE" for stimulating irresponsible behavior.

"Responsibility" is no where to be found in the liberal creed.

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Lol, Conservatives don't offer free shit to people for votes, they offer free shit to corporations for money. Both very bad ideas.

You don't comprehend how a business is run so how the fuck can you say anything about the process of business?

Yes corporations get TAX BREAKS, tax breaks that are already IN LAW and are supported by republicans.

You see FIRST you have to comprehend what the tax cuts are and where they're applied to even have a fucking viable opinion in this matter. You know neither so your opinion is moot.

Quote:

Ahh, not really the way to address the issues. We need change, and not the BS BO promised, we need real change in the way government is run. Neither side, including the current shade of conservatives will act against the corporations that paid their way into office.

Exactly my pont.

Again, you have proven your self to know absolutely NOTHING about business or corporate America to even have a fucking opinion.

You're hating something you know absolutely nothing about which makes your hate 100% unfounded and illogical.

Quote:

Nope. The problem is there are hundreds of millions of americans, and billions of other people, who have been fucked over by the rich. Power and money corrupts.

The very intention of this thread was to push the boundaries of how far corporations have gone already. They exist to make profits, that's all. They do not need rights, they do not need special favors.

Corporate America can do absolutely NOTHING.

All the bullshit you believe about corporate America is ALL LIES AND PROPAGANDA manufactured by those who subscribe to the Che Guevara philosophy.

Do you realize this????

Do you realize your being conned by a bunch of communists????????

If you want to believe the communist party FINE but that makes you a fucking moron for buying their lies.

I don't mean to be mean here but your level of gullibility is absolutely stunning. You sit here and buy into all this anti-capitalist nonsense being spewed by the communists in this country.... WHY????

Why don't you go LEARN about the financial aspect of business THEN decide to hate corporate America.

To make it simple, If the corporation DIDN'T get tax beaks they would be stuck with EPIC amounts of toxic assets that by rule would be harmful to the company for the simple fact they by general rule depreciate and become a liability...

Politico · #93 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Wow, I thought we were making some headroom. What are you so pissed about? I simply said your statement contradicted itself, which it did the way it was worded, I was hoping for a clarification. I easily could have insulted you for contradicting yourself but I just let you know I did not know what you meant.

Anyway, as I stated before, I'm not a Liberal. I actually do know about business quite a bit. I've stated fact after fact, all which point to the fact that corporations get excessive tax breaks often times at the cost of the american tax payer. Including you. Obviously completely missed by you.

Facts, facts and facts are what I've provided, you've rebutted with "everyone knows".... and that I'm a fucking moron for believing the communist party. I'd love to see who is a communist that I am listening to or reading. But I doubt you can provide proof of that either. No facts, no figures, nothing but I know nothing about business. LOL.

Since this is obviously un-productive and you will continue to act like a child and no number of facts I produce will be even read by you, in addition to no facts provided by you to rebutt, there's no point. Obviously you will say you won in your own mind because if you ignore the facts, produce no facts of your own (even though I've asked for some) and throw out insults.... well I guess that's how you win an argument in your own mind.

In other words when you decide you'd like to act with the type of respect I've even shown to you, then we can try again. Until then strip down to your tighty whitey's and do the jig for all I care, but I'm done. Have a nice day.

Swoop187 · #94 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politico

Wow, I thought we were making some headroom. What are you so pissed about? I simply said your statement contradicted itself, which it did the way it was worded, I was hoping for a clarification. I easily could have insulted you for contradicting yourself but I just let you know I did not know what you meant.

Anyway, as I stated before, I'm not a Liberal. I actually do know about business quite a bit. I've stated fact after fact, all which point to the fact that corporations get excessive tax breaks often times at the cost of the american tax payer. Including you. Obviously completely missed by you.

Facts, facts and facts are what I've provided, you've rebutted with "everyone knows".... and that I'm a fucking moron for believing the communist party. I'd love to see who is a communist that I am listening to or reading. But I doubt you can provide proof of that either. No facts, no figures, nothing but I know nothing about business. LOL.

Since this is obviously un-productive and you will continue to act like a child and no number of facts I produce will be even read by you, in addition to no facts provided by you to rebutt, there's no point. Obviously you will say you won in your own mind because if you ignore the facts, produce no facts of your own (even though I've asked for some) and throw out insults.... well I guess that's how you win an argument in your own mind.

In other words when you decide you'd like to act with the type of respect I've even shown to you, then we can try again. Until then strip down to your tighty whitey's and do the jig for all I care, but I'm done. Have a nice day.

What facts have you stated?

Your whole beef with capitalism is clearly partisan and not factual.

You talk of "poor wages" as justification for your hate of capitalism and any person that has a background in business knows that people are NOT paid poorly.... Could they make more? sure, but they do via raise when they stick with the program.

Look NO business in their right mind is going to offer $20.00 per hour right off the bat for remedial work.

Your hate for business and capitalism is TOTALLY unjustified and completely influenced by communist philosophy.

Politico · #95 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

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Originally Posted by Swoop187

What facts have you stated?

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Taxation without representation. This is what American revolutionists cried out in the 1770's....... Why would they say that? They were being taxed unfairly and Brittain's pet company, the East India Company, was given tax breaks upon tax breaks in order to make them more profitable.

Here are some interesting facts from Unequal Protection, by Thom Hartmann

Did you know, in 1956 Corporations paid 28 percent of US tax revenue. By 1996 that was 11.8 percent.

Did you know in 1955, Family income tax was 17.3 percent of the median family income, and in 1996 it was 37.6.

The share of property taxes paid by corporations in 1957 was 45 percent, and in 1995 (despite corporations owning much more property) that number in 1996 was 16 percent.

During Reagan's first year of Tax Reforms, GE received a tax rebate.

Between 1996 and 1999, 41 of America's largest corporations earned 25.8 billion in profits, yet they did not just avoid paying taxes, they actually received 3.2 billion in rebates.

Enron was able to pay no federal taxes in 4 out of the 5 years prior to the implosion, in 2000 they were able to convert a potential tax bill into a 278 million dollar refund.

According to the US General Accounting Office, almost a third of all large corporations paid no income tax at all between 1989 and 1995 (the last year such a study was done), and more than 60 percent of those companies paid less than 1 million in taxes.

According to a 1996 report from the cato institute, businesses in the US receive direct tax subsidies of over 75 billion annually, that equates to about 750 dollars from every american household, going directly to big business

That last point is a good segway, where do you think all of the lost revenue, or those rebate checks, come from?

- from post # 58

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In 1998 the FBI estimated robberies and burglaries cost the US about 4 Billion dollars.

That must be a lot worse than corporate misbehavior, according to you.

In 1998 Securities Scams and fraud ran over 15 billion dollars.
In 1998 Insurance and corporate fraud found on Insurance/HMO/hospital Billings runs between 100 and 400 Billion every year.

Then we can take into account Madoff, Enron, the Savings and Loans scandals, etc.

Talking about murder,

In 1998, 19,000 people were murdered in the US at the hands of other people.

Much worse than corporations, right?

In 1998, 56,000 people dies from WORK-RELATED Disease like asbestos caused black lung, and many times that number died from "silent violence of pollution, contaminated food, hazardous consumer products, and hospital malpractice" Quote from Corporate Crime Reporter

Want a specific example?

In 1998, a large meatpacking company replaced a refridgeration unit on one of their processing lines. Shortly after,the detectors they have in place on the line to find deadly bacteria like Listeria monocytogenes started to react, indicating high levels of contamination.
The company's response was immediate. "The tests started coming up positive, so they stopped testing" - Caroline Smith DeWaal, Center of Science in the Public Interest "This company's 4th amendment right to privacy blocked surprise inspections by the government".
The detectors were turned off for a full month before the CDC used fingerprinting and DNA to trace it to that particular plant, causing a massive recall. During that month, hundreds of people became very ill, and 21 people died.

Their executive decision cost 21 people their lives. They made a choice to keep selling product they knew could and probably would kill people. Their punishment for MURDERING 21 people? A 200,000 dollar fine.

Info sourced from Unequal Protection, Thom Hartmann.

From post # 78

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I'm actually well aware of accounting practices, such as the one Warren Buffett called the white house to end (under GEEDUB) which allowed corporations to inflate their bottom line by handing out stock options to execs. basically it is fabricated profit, but completely legal. Or how in the late 1980's and into the 1990's, Tobacco companies spent over 30 million dollars in donations to both republican and democratic politicians and their parties. In 1997, Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich inserted a single sentence into that years tax law bill. That single sentence granted the tobacco industry a 50 Billion dollar tax break.

Or another fact, from the buying of the president, 2004,
A large national bank gave the DNC a $3.5M line of credit at a very low interest rate 2 weeks after Democrats helped push through the 1994 Fair Trade in Financial Services Act, a law that netted that same bank $50 million dollars a year in savings.

- From post 82

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Congressman Bernie Sanders, Vermont stated WTO free trade agreements "Would benefit the poorest people in the developing world. Really? Since the passage of NAFTA, more than 1 million more Mexicans (in mexico) work for less than the minimum wage of $3.40 per day, and 8 million Mexicans have fallen from the middle class into poverty."

Comprendo?

He went further, "The Free Press mentions that fabric and apparel factories employ 60 percent of the industrial work force in Pakistan. True. But the Free Press forgets to mention that while the apparel industry in America has been decimated, and tens of thousands of jobs have been lost here, the average Pakistani worker is paid 25 cents an hour. The free press may think that the Tommy Hilfiger company is producing shirts in pakistan because they want to help the poor people there. I think they're there because they can pay slave wages and increase their profit margin."

The CIA world FactBook says the average income in Pakistan is 2500 dollars. At 25 cents an hour, the average worker would need to work 200 hundred hours a week to make an average income. That's just over 28 hours a day if your counting.

Post 85

Quote:

The rolling blackouts of California, where excutives were tape recorded when calling the power control room, telling them to shut off the power. The results was demand skyrocketed and the corporations made billions in profits, and so kept the blackouts coming.

Oil refining companies in the US have not built a new refinery in over 20 years. Oil consumption has increased but as the supply has stayed the same..... yes you get it, demand has risen and supply has stayed the same means higher cost and therefore higher profits.

Post 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

Your whole beef with capitalism is clearly partisan and not factual.

Wait wait wait, I stated that both sides take money and are corrupt, you call me a LIBERAL consistantly(a partisan statement) and say you side with the Conservatives because they are the lesser of two evils (another partisan statement).....but I'm the one who has animosity based upon partisan views..... WOW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

You talk of "poor wages" as justification for your hate of capitalism and any person that has a background in business knows that people are NOT paid poorly.... Could they make more? sure, but they do via raise when they stick with the program.
Look NO business in their right mind is going to offer $20.00 per hour right off the bat for remedial work.

Your hate for business and capitalism is TOTALLY unjustified and completely influenced by communist philosophy.

Again, more quotes from me,

from above,

Quote:

Congressman Bernie Sanders, Vermont stated WTO free trade agreements "Would benefit the poorest people in the developing world. Really? Since the passage of NAFTA, more than 1 million more Mexicans (in mexico) work for less than the minimum wage of $3.40 per day, and 8 million Mexicans have fallen from the middle class into poverty."

Comprendo?

He went further, "The Free Press mentions that fabric and apparel factories employ 60 percent of the industrial work force in Pakistan. True. But the Free Press forgets to mention that while the apparel industry in America has been decimated, and tens of thousands of jobs have been lost here, the average Pakistani worker is paid 25 cents an hour. The free press may think that the Tommy Hilfiger company is producing shirts in pakistan because they want to help the poor people there. I think they're there because they can pay slave wages and increase their profit margin."

The CIA world FactBook says the average income in Pakistan is 2500 dollars. At 25 cents an hour, the average worker would need to work 200 hundred hours a week to make an average income. That's just over 28 hours a day if your counting.

and
from post 86,

Quote:

Where did I state everyone should make 25 bucks an hour? I spent a week arguing against that on this board. Would you stop making assumptions?

Politico · #96 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Let me ask you a few basic questions,

Do you feel corporations have influence within our government? Yes or no.

Do you think the middle class has shrunk or grown since the 50's?

How many Americans are out of work today?

What is the pay ratio for a CEO today compared to 30 years ago?

Are you wealthy or do you think you will be wealthy some day?

Disillusioned_1 · #97 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

You're doing fine Politico, some people don't have rational methods to dispute valid points, so its hard to have BBS discussions with them.

Swoop187 · #98 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politico

Let me ask you a few basic questions,

Do you feel corporations have influence within our government? Yes or no.

Do you think the middle class has shrunk or grown since the 50's?

How many Americans are out of work today?

What is the pay ratio for a CEO today compared to 30 years ago?

Are you wealthy or do you think you will be wealthy some day?

Do you realize that EVERY special interest group has lobbyists? Unions, gays, blacks etc.. Any issue you can think of has lobbyists. Of course corporation is no different of course they have influence in government and RIGHTLY so. Lets not forget its corporate America WHO IS PAYING THE MOST TAXES. If it wasn't for corporate America YOU sir would only get a fucking allowance from our government for a 60 hour a week government job.

So what exactly is your beef now? EVERY special interest group has their hands in government.

Do I think the middle class has grown or shrunk?

What type of question is that? define middle class. You couldn't be more vague.

Sorry buddy Americas are out of work because Bill Clinton is a fucking prick and people in general are lazy assholes that think everything is free. YOU are to blame buddy if you have credit card debt and didn't pay it off.

WHO FUCKING CARES WHAT A CEO MAKES...ITS FUCKING IRRELEVANT. DOES A CEO'S PAY EFFECT YOU?????

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DICTATE WHAT A CEO GETS PAID WHEN YOU DONT OWN ANY BUSINESS?

Like I said, you have not fucking points just POPULAR LIBERAL HATE for capitalism.

Like I said YOU have a problem with someone making more then you do.

YOU HAVE ZERO ARGUMENT... its nothing more then bitching because YOU aren't rich.

Now were fucking done here, because clearly its impossible for you to comprehend that YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY IN OTHER FOLKS BUSINESS.

If you don't understand its NON OF YOUR BUSINESS then I have no interest in even talking to your kind.

Swoop187 · #99 (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

I can play this game too.

JUSTIFY TO ME WHY ANY OF YOU HAVE MORE THEN I DO!!!!!

NO FAIR!!!!!!!

BillyWitchDr. · #**100** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

The OP just tore apart the nonsensical notion of corporate person hood but it seems like it went over most of the posters heads. It is a travesty that an amendment that ended slavery would be used today to give corporation's special benefits.

Swoop187 · #**101** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

The OP just tore apart the nonsensical notion of corporate person hood but it seems like it went over most of the posters heads. It is a travesty that an amendment that ended slavery would be used today to give corporation's special benefits.

They don't get "SPECIAL" benefits.

People continue to say this but DON'T give an example of this.

Yes their are tax breaks allotted TO business and rightly so, but thats only because GOVERNMENT CANT TAX EVERYTHING A MILLION TIMES.

DO you fucking get that?

Or is that too hard to comprehend for some people?

So you people would be fine with the government taxing EVERYTHING at every stage of production?

IF that was the case MANUFACTURING WOULD BE MOOT!

If the government taxed shit at every stage of production YOU WOULD PAY A HIGHER COST for it at the store and MOST of the shit wouldnt be economically viable.

You want to pay 10 bucks for a bar of soap?????

Well if the government taxed soap at every stage of production THEN in fact you would end up paying 10 bucks for a bar of soap.

GOD FORBID THE COMPANY GETS TAX BREAKS.

You want tax beaks?

Start a fucking business.

Maybe you will learn something?

Swoop187 · #**102** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

I guarantee its those who bitch about capitalism and corporate America who are the biggest cheats of them all.

BillyWitchDr. · #**103** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Swoop,

First Corporate person hood is an oxymoron, corporations are large collections of people, not a single entity.

Second, corporate person hood gives corporations special benefits that are not awarded to other businesses. Yes one of these benefits is tax privileges, but also limited liability which give corporations unfair advantages over businesses that are not incorporated, say like worker cooperatives.

If you think that the state granting privileges to business simply because they are ran hierarchically is a good thing, then there really is nothing more to say on the subject. That is not a free market.

Politico · #**104** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

Do you realize that EVERY special interest group has lobbyists? Unions, gays, blacks etc.. Any issue you can think of has lobbyists. Of course corporation is no different of course they have influence in government and RIGHTLY so. Lets not forget its corporate America WHO IS PAYING THE MOST TAXES. If it wasn't for corporate America YOU sir would only get a fucking allowance from our government for a 60 hour a week government job.

Yes, a lot of special interests have lobbyists, but which ones have the most money?

It's idiotic how I've posted figures to show otherwise, yet you posted the part in bold.

Quote:

So what exactly is your beef now? EVERY special interest group has their hands in government.

My "beef" is influence afforded to those with the most money.

Quote:

Do I think the middle class has grown or shrunk?

What type of question is that? define middle class. You couldn't be more vague.

What's wrong can't answer it so you try to insult me?

You know what middle class, that's what's wrong with corporate elitist's like yourself, you know damn well middle class is shrinking so you re-define it.

Quote:

Sorry buddy Americas are out of work because Bill Clinton is a fucking prick and people in general are lazy assholes that think everything is free. YOU are to blame buddy if you have credit card debt and didn't pay it off.

Here YOU go again making assumptions, I have not had a credit card in years. I own my car, a nice loaded american sedan with 50k miles. No payments.

Quote:

WHO FUCKING CARES WHAT A CEO MAKES...ITS FUCKING IRRELEVANT. DOES A CEO'S PAY EFFECT YOU?????

In 1980, the ceo pay was 40 times what the average non-management salary employees pay was. Today, it's more than 450. Look at those numbers and think hard about that.

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WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DICTATE WHAT A CEO GETS PAID WHEN YOU DONT OWN ANY BUSINESS?

Did I state they should get paid more or less?

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Like I said, you have not fucking points just POPULAR LIBERAL HATE for capitalism.

Sure if you ignore whatever you want.

Quote:

Like I said YOU have a problem with someone making more then you do.

Never stated that.

Quote:

YOU HAVE ZERO ARGUMENT... its nothing more then bitching because YOU aren't rich.

No, you have no argument other than FINDING THE CAPS KEY and getting pissed when I ask questions. Not addressing ANY of the facts I posted, twice. Not actually trying to make any point but trying to insult me and call me a liberal over and over.

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Now were fucking done here, because clearly its impossible for you to comprehend that YOU DON'T HAVE A SAY IN OTHER FOLKS BUSINESS.

So I should shut up while corporations run this country into the ground because people like you look around and don't see the correlation between corporations being able to do as they wish and the way this country is headed?

Quote:

If you don't understand its NON OF YOUR BUSINESS then I have no interest in even talking to your kind.

What is none of my business? Asking questions? You see nothing wrong with CEO's making 130 million dollars a year while they lay people off?

You're acting like a child. you refuse to actually read what I've written, it's amazing you've been able to draw the conclusion that I'm a liberal, because I actually want a smaller government than apparently you do. You've made statement's that are contrary to fact (such as corporations paying more taxes).

You are apparently one of those who thinks these CEO's with the millionaire execs are people who should be running this country, because afterall, they're rich. Rich don't equal right.

Let me put it another way, you sit there and defend that the people influencing the country are the wealthy businessmen, because they "pay more taxes" (which actually, they pay less taxes than we do by spending more on lobbying), but they have one purpose, to make more money. Businesses can't vote, but they can influence politicians. There's a reason they can't vote. Finally, look at the state of the US industries, these are the people you want running the country, and doing a damn fine job of it aren't they?

Politico · #**105** (**permalink**) 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

They don't get "SPECIAL" benefits.

People continue to say this but DON'T give an example of this.

Yes their are tax breaks allotted TO business and rightly so, but thats only because GOVERNMENT CANT TAX EVERYTHING A MILLION TIMES.

DO you fucking get that?

Or is that too hard to comprehend for some people?

So you people would be fine with the government taxing EVERYTHING at every stage of production?

IF that was the case MANUFACTURING WOULD BE MOOT!

If the government taxed shit at every stage of production YOU WOULD PAY A HIGHER COST for it at the store and MOST of the shit wouldnt be economically viable.

You want to pay 10 bucks for a bar of soap?????

Well if the government taxed soap at every stage of production THEN in fact you would end up paying 10 bucks for a bar of soap.

GOD FORBID THE COMPANY GETS TAX BREAKS.

You want tax beaks?

Start a fucking business.

Maybe you will learn something?

Don't get special benefits? Well actually they do. Subsudies are hand outs, in other words bail-outs. The thing you keep screaming at me that I want because I say corporations shouldn't get them. Bush-Cheney's energy "stimulous package was nothing but a big hand out to corporations who didn't need the money. Haliburton has no-bid contracts and overcharges because they put a CEO in the VP office. The "stimulous" package has not stimulated the economy, and now what? Free healthcare? Like we can afford that, btut don't worry swoop, it'll just be the government taxing you another several hundred a year and a lot of it will still go to the Insurance companies who lobby a lot.

If they cannot survive without bailouts, let em fail. The American people are resiliant and intelligent, (well I thought so until this exchange) and will make it.

Instead, the government gives them tax breaks and incentives which means they get a huge check at the end of the year. But according to you, that means they pay more in taxes.

Did you fail math?

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