If Corporations are People can they run for office? - Page 9 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Porras · #**121** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

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Originally Posted by Swoop187

Now I don't buy the cries of interest rates from these assholes. Whats the difference between 5% and 10% when your 60 grand in debt and only make 35 a year?????

A twenty year, sixty thousand dollar loan at five percent means you're paying six thousand a year. At ten percent, you're paying nine thousand a year. If I made the extra ten thousand a year required to get my income up to thirty five, I could easily afford either of them. At my level of income, the five percent loan (plus dropping the four hundred a month I pay for rent) still wouldn't be much of a problem. Ten percent would.

Rahmota · #**122** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

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ITS FUCKING DISGUSTING HOW ANYONE COULD EVEN DEFEND THESE WELFARE LAZY FUCKS WHO REFUSE TO WORK.......THEY REFUSE TO FUCKING WORK, THEY REFUSE TO FUCKING WORK....

Not all who are on welfare refuse to work, many are disadvantaged by the "free market" discrimination against them, bigots who assume because they are on welfare they are lazy, and in general the way the system is set up to keep those who are down down. It is easy to fall in this country it is hard to pick oneself up.

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and point fingers where they belong.

Teh fingers are being pointed where they belong at the discriminatory and exploitive capitalist social structure and the ignorant bigots that perpetuate the stereotypes and excuse the oligarchy.

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You're out of line buddy.....

Look at your post was and you say I'm out of line?

Politico · #**123** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

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Originally Posted by Swoop187

Bill Clinton's drive to increase homeownership went way too far - BusinessWeek

Bill Clinton discontinued the federal welfare program and then forced the banks to lower their lending standards.

Those folks were on welfare for a reason.

Like I said, it wasn't only the welfare folk but it was pretty much anyone who wanted something for nothing who took advantage of the lowering of credit standards.

Everybody knows this.

Its common knowledge...

It was all Bill Clinton's fault huh? Here's a quote taken from your link, BTW, thanks for finally adding something of substance.

Quote:

The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a "historic meeting" of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

In the quote, it shows that private and public housing industry organizations met to develop a plan. So, how you (and the author of the article) equate that to Bill Clinton going too far, is beyond me. In your very quote, it shows how corporate influence had a negative effect.

BillyWitchDr. · #**124** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

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Originally Posted by Swoop187

You obviously have ZERO concept of how business works.

That statement is completely asinine and even if it was true it would be moot to boot.

I will say that most small business' fail, that would be correct and these small businesses cost the government and banks NOTHING... Its the owners CAPITAL and the businesses ASSETS that go down the tubes in those situations.

The whole practice of accounting generally prevents this from happening.

BTW you want to talk about tax shortcuts and breaks?????

Show me examples of these "tax breaks" you're fed up with.

Like how manufactures don't pay taxes on components??????

Why the fuck should a manufacturer pay taxes on a component that is used to make something else that will be taxed again?

Do you want to pay $85,000 for a Honda???

GODDAMN RIGHT businesses get tax breaks but that's just to make the product economically viable. YOU CANT PAY TAXES AT EVERY STAGE OF PRODUCTION.

You can pay the CEO's a billion per year and that wont change the fact the Honda is $85,000 a price that people CANT AFFORD.

Tax breaks actually keep the economy "reasonable" meaning if businesses had those tax breaks taken away you would see massive inflation on all products...

Big business got $92 billion in tax dollars in year 2006.
The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

Politico · #**125** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

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DO you comprehend Bill Clinton discontinued the ENTIRE welfare program?

Are you aware Clinton told these people to go buy house and their own shit and FORCED the fucking lenders to finance this?????

They were on welfare for a reason, because they were lazy fucks that DIDN'T WANT TO WORK. Those same lazy fucks today refuse to work and now live on STATE WELFARE rather then federal welfare.

ITS FUCKING DISGUSTING HOW ANYONE COULD EVEN DEFEND THESE WELFARE LAZY FUCKS WHO REFUSE TO WORK.......THEY REFUSE TO FUCKING WORK, THEY REFUSE TO FUCKING WORK....

I swear, you're completely impossible. Clinton didn't force anyone to do jack squat. He asked them to come up with a plan. They came up with a plan (go back and read your link). They made their bed, they didn;t have to lie init because the US government bailed them out.

As for Welfare, what the hell are you talking about? Seriously, where have I mentioned people on welfare. Yes, there are lazy people on welfare, are they the end of the US? Not quite.

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Well I'm not a nut that believes in the "US [people] vs Them [corporation]" ideology.

If people fuck up its their fault and I'm not just going to jump on the "US" bandwagon. Now its quite clear people REALLY fucked up and took on debt with no worries and in some cases people took on debt with no intention to pay it back. Collectively that is TOXIC to our economy.

This statement is STUPID on oh so many levels. You defend the corporations, even after I show you how they are paying less in taxes than we are, they are getting bailed out constantly (meaning free money, like welfare) because they cannot operate successfully even with all the strings they pull. Also, if the banks developed these plans, don't you think they knew what the hell they were doing? Oh nooo, you go and blame the people, yet again.

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Now I don't buy the cries of interest rates from these assholes. Whats the difference between 5% and 10% when your 60 grand in debt and only make 35 a year?????

Now I'm an asshole? Look at my posts, then yours and then think that over. Besides, when you factor in the unemployment rate, the cost of living increases, the median income, inflation and so on, we're much worse off than we were in the past. Creative lending worked in favor of the banks, when clearly it did not need to, to such an extent.

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As usual its those that cry the loudest about the banks that were the ones looking to rip off the banks them selves.

If that is directed at me, as usual you are way off base.

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Furthermore I find it fucking astounding how the people hate the banks but its the banks and other lenders that PROVIDE THEM OPPORTUNITY to buy a truck or start a business or even buy every day goods...

Yes, at a profit of well over 100% without putting any of their actual money up in most cases, how sweet of them.

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They front the fucking money for you THE MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE.

They don't have it either Genius.

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If this country didn't have banks willing to lend money to people then this NATION WOULDN'T BE WHAT IT WAS YESTERDAY.

And if banks charged a realistic percentage, we'd be much better off today.

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Now people can continue to play the US vs THEM game or they can grow the fuck up and point fingers where they belong.

You talk about growing up yet you constantly type in caps and "Fuck this and fuck that". you do play the "us vs. them" game, you blame poor people and people on welfare. You blame the politicians for making bad decisions when you are too incompetent to understand they are not stupid, they are making those bad decisions based upon who pays them the most money. This is what everyone is trying to get through to you, but apparently it is a lost cause because no one can tell you a damn thing.

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Now I'm NOT saying the banks DIDN'T play a role in this and they are NOT to blame but what I am saying is THEY AREN'T THE ONLY ONES TO BLAME.

Let's see, they came up with the scheme errrr plan, they implemented the plan, the plan failed.

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1. Clinton lined up the dominoes to fall
2. Republicans let him
3. The people pushed those dominoes over by taking advantage of Clintons lax credit standards forced on the banks by him.
4. The banks asked for high interest rates on high risk loans.

The banks played a role sure their hand was FORCED BY CLINTON.

Again, the industry leaders were involved and came up with the actual plan. Read you're own link.

You don't get it. These corporations and their leaders that you place up on that pedestal, they ARE running the country. The people you vote for, are bought and paid for by those corporations so their decisions and their laws are heavily influenced by corporations. This is why bad decisions are made, because our laws are being based upon the wishes of these huge corporations you are trying to defend. And they are FAILING, do YOU comprehend that at all?

Politico · #**126** (**permalink**) 11-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahmota

Not all who are on welfare refuse to work, many are disadvantaged by the "free market" discrimination against them, bigots who assume because they are on welfare they are lazy, and in general the way the system is set up to keep those who are down down. It is easy to fall in this country it is hard to pick oneself up.

Well, once people have that stereo-type stuck in their head, you already know what you're dealing with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

Big business got $92 billion in tax dollars in year 2006.
The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

Swoop is immune to facts.

Swoop187 · #**127** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

Big business got $92 billion in tax dollars in year 2006.
The Corporate Welfare State: How the Federal Government Subsidizes U.S. Businesses | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

AGAIN....

You people are nuts, do you realize those corporate "tax breaks" are in place to insure products don't cost 10x more then they should??

Only those who are ignorant to business and the process of business would question tax breaks.

Do you people comprehend products are manufactured from other products????? there called "components" and those "components" are purchased from other manufactures on a "tax break" meaning the company who buys those "components" DON'T PAY TAXES ON THOSE PRODUCTS for the simple reason they will be used to manufacture a different product.

That's just one example of a simple EVIL "tax break"

AGAIN you people arguing against these "tax beaks" are ignorant to business.

AT LEAST KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU GO AND CONDEMN INDUSTRY AND BUSINESS.

Swoop187 · #**128** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politico

I swear, you're completely impossible. Clinton didn't force anyone to do jack squat. He asked them to come up with a plan. They came up with a plan (go back and read your link). They made their bed, they didn;t have to lie init because the US government bailed them out.

As for Welfare, what the hell are you talking about? Seriously, where have I mentioned people on welfare. Yes, there are lazy people on welfare, are they the end of the US? Not quite.

This statement is STUPID on oh so many levels. You defend the corporations, even after I show you how they are paying less in taxes than we are, they are getting bailed out constantly (meaning free money, like welfare) because they cannot operate successfully even with all the strings they pull. Also, if the banks developed these plans, don't you think they knew what the hell they were doing? Oh nooo, you go and blame the people, yet again.

Now I'm an asshole? Look at my posts, then yours and then think that over. Besides, when you factor in the unemployment rate, the cost of living increases, the median income, inflation and so on, we're much worse off than we were in the past. Creative lending worked in favor of the banks, when clearly it did not need to, to such an extent.

If that is directed at me, as usual you are way off base.

Yes, at a profit of well over 100% without putting any of their actual money up in most cases, how sweet of them.

They don't have it either Genius.

And if banks charged a realistic percentage, we'd be much better off today.

You talk about growing up yet you constantly type in caps and "Fuck this and fuck that". you do play the "us vs. them" game, you blame poor people and people on welfare. You blame the politicians for making bad decisions when you are too incompetent to understand they are not stupid, they are making those bad decisions based upon who pays them the most money. This is what everyone is trying to get through to you, but apparently it is a lost cause because no one can tell you a damn thing.

Let's see, they came up with the scheme errrr plan, they implemented the plan, the plan failed.

Again, the industry leaders were involved and came up with the actual plan. Read you're own link.

You don't get it. These corporations and their leaders that you place up on that pedestal, they ARE running the country. The people you vote for, are bought and paid for by those corporations so their decisions and their laws are heavily influenced by corporations. This is why bad decisions are made, because our laws are being based upon the wishes of these huge corporations you are trying to defend. And they are FAILING, do YOU comprehend that at all?

I'm not going to waste my time typing the same shit over and over and over.

For you to be even on the same page as I am you will need to read this. As of right now its quite clear you have absolutely NO idea what the fuck you're talking about....

You might as well be using communist anti-capitalist propaganda for fucks sake.

BillyWitchDr. · #**129** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

AGAIN....

You people are nuts, do you realize those corporate "tax breaks" are in place to insure products don't cost 10x more then they should??

The $91 billion (91,000,000,000) are not from tax breaks, it is tax payer money GIVEN to big business. It is called a subsidy, ie welfare. It is also a major part of the reason why small businesses can't compete with the big chains that come into town.

Swoop187 · #**130** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyWitchDr.

The $91 billion (91,000,000,000) are not from tax breaks, it is tax payer money GIVEN to big business. It is called a subsidy, ie welfare. It is also a major part of the reason why small businesses can't compete with the big chains that come into town.

Small businesses cant compete with corporations like walmart because walmart makes their own shit and the products they do get from other suppliers are bought in bulk at a discount. Lets also not forget that stores like K-Mart and such are extremely convenient to boot.

Now in small towns their are no "general" stores that can offer the prices walmart can and the selection of products they do. Hell, you can get everything you need at walmart.. Thats what people want, cheap products and convenience.

Also, I don't know who told you the government just gives free money to corporate America.

Rahmota · #**131** (**permalink**) 11-12-2009

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Small businesses cant compete with corporations like walmart because walmart makes their own shit

True having sweat shops and slave labor in southeast asia and south america does cut their overhead a bit.

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the products they do get from other suppliers are bought in bulk

Which China really appreciates the amount of business Wal-mart provides their people.

Which is really funny as Wal-mart provides jobs, money and supports the communist regime of China. So Wal-mart supports communism.

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Now in small towns their are no "general" stores

True enough nd that is one o the saddest attrocities of our society. One of the reason I favor laws that control the size of companies so that there would be no such thing as big box mega-corps like walmart.

Swoop187 · #**132** (**permalink**) 11-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahmota

True having sweat shops and slave labor in southeast asia and south america does cut their overhead a bit.

Which China really appreciates the amount of business Wal-mart provides their people.

Which is really funny as Wal-mart provides jobs, money and supports the communist regime of China. So Wal-mart supports communism.

True enough nd that is one o the saddest attrocities of our society. One of the reason I favor laws that control the size of companies so that there would be no such thing as big box mega-corps like walmart.

Look, I'm not a big Wal Mart fan and if it was up to me I would do whatever I could to keep jobs in the US. Outsourcing is where me and other free market supporters differ. I don't believe outsourcing is necessary.

Look man, business isn't evil and the free market isn't evil. Tax breaks have their purpose and its not to line the pockets of the owners or stock holders. The purpose of the tax break is to keep products affordable all the while keeping employees employed.

If these tax breaks you hate didn't exist you would be paying 2 bucks for a can of Coke and unemployment would be at 15% in the best of economies and I would imagine only then would you really feel you were getting ripped off.

Swoop187 · #**133** (**permalink**) 11-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Politico

I swear, you're completely impossible. Clinton didn't force anyone to do jack squat. He asked them to come up with a plan. They came up with a plan (go back and read your link). They made their bed, they didn;t have to lie init because the US government bailed them out.

As for Welfare, what the hell are you talking about? Seriously, where have I mentioned people on welfare. Yes, there are lazy people on welfare, are they the end of the US? Not quite.

This statement is STUPID on oh so many levels. You defend the corporations, even after I show you how they are paying less in taxes than we are, they are getting bailed out constantly (meaning free money, like welfare) because they cannot operate successfully even with all the strings they pull. Also, if the banks developed these plans, don't you think they knew what the hell they were doing? Oh nooo, you go and blame the people, yet again.

Now I'm an asshole? Look at my posts, then yours and then think that over. Besides, when you factor in the unemployment rate, the cost of living increases, the median income, inflation and so on, we're much worse off than we were in the past. Creative lending worked in favor of the banks, when clearly it did not need to, to such an extent.

If that is directed at me, as usual you are way off base.

Yes, at a profit of well over 100% without putting any of their actual money up in most cases, how sweet of them.

They don't have it either Genius.

And if banks charged a realistic percentage, we'd be much better off today.

You talk about growing up yet you constantly type in caps and "Fuck this and fuck that". you do play the "us vs. them" game, you blame poor people and people on welfare. You blame the politicians for making bad decisions when you are too incompetent to understand they are not stupid, they are making those bad decisions based upon who pays them the most money. This is what everyone is trying to get through to you, but apparently it is a lost cause because no one can tell you a damn thing.

Let's see, they came up with the scheme errrr plan, they implemented the plan, the plan failed.

Again, the industry leaders were involved and came up with the actual plan. Read you're own link.

You don't get it. These corporations and their leaders that you place up on that pedestal, they ARE running the country. The people you vote for, are bought and paid for by those corporations so their decisions and their laws are heavily influenced by corporations. This is why bad decisions are made, because our laws are being based upon the wishes of these huge corporations you are trying to defend. And they are FAILING, do YOU comprehend that at all?

Clinton set the dominoes up to fall, if you don't want to accept that then FINE.

You can go ask ANY expert who doesn't have an agenda and they will tell you exactly what I am.

Fuck this was predicted as soon as Clinton lined those dominoes up to fall.

People were crying about this before Clinton left office.

The Clinton years were bought on credit, meaning people were charging up a storm under Clinton because HE CHANGED CREDIT STANDARDS which means those who couldn't normally get credit NOW DID.... Now the Bush years were when this shit had to be paid off and it NEVER WAS....Hence you get this economy.

Fuck, even liberals understand this.

Politico · #**134** (**permalink**) 11-13-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swoop187

I'm not going to waste my time typing the same shit over and over and over.

For you to be even on the same page as I am you will need to read this. As of right now its quite clear you have absolutely NO idea what the fuck you're talking about....

You might as well be using communist anti-capitalist propaganda for fucks sake.

Ok genius,

Explain how businesses as a whole pay less in taxes than people, and 50 years ago (when there were far less corporations) the roles were reversed. No one stated businesses need to be taxed on every stage of production or procurement, we have stated they should be paying their fair share of taxes, can you understand that?

In other words, at a time of great growth and profitability, corporations were paying higher taxes, and not all going out of business, and not overcharging. After inflation, higher wages were paid as well. Today, companies pay less in taxes than people.

It's actually rather simple;
I make X amount, I get taxed Y and Y= (Xx.15).
ACME Tobacco Corporation makes 100b, Acme Tobacco lobbies congress with over 20 million dollars and they don't pay taxes and in fact get a check back (from my taxes), Do you get that? Is that getting through on ANY level?

And, BTW, simple accounting practices and books for dummies will not teach you ALL about business, maybe you should venture into the economics section of your local bookstore.

Is that what you do when you can't come up with a real reply? Throw insults and claim to be on a higher level?

It's amazing you've managed to be almost civil towards me once and you've shown more respect to someone who just jumped into the thread.