Thread: Pat down a 4 year old is okay but not Muslims, Napolitano may exempt

It's not about air travel safety... it's about being politically correct.

Originally Posted by tsquare

It's not about air travel safety... it's about being politically correct.

And in my opinion Political Correctness is blunt force trauma mind control. It is bullshit of the highest degree.

It is not my fault or intent if you hear me utter something and get offended by it. YOU MADE THE CHOICE to be offended.

It's a backlash due to the fact that previously if you were "openly muslim/arabic" you were definitely going to be "randomly" selected. It was almost a certainty, had a friend travel out to Pennsylvania and back on his own, he's Colombian, dark skin, thick accent, lived in America all his life, and he got "randomly selected both times, on a plane of over 100 people.

Originally Posted by Twelfth

It's a backlash due to the fact that previously if you were "openly muslim/arabic" you were definitely going to be "randomly" selected. It was almost a certainty, had a friend travel out to Pennsylvania and back on his own, he's Colombian, dark skin, thick accent, lived in America all his life, and he got "randomly selected both times, on a plane of over 100 people.

My mother in law before she passed away, 70 something, white and artificial knee. Got pulled out 50% of the time she flew.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

Napolitano May Exempt Muslims From Airport Pat-Downs | Judicial Watch

If you are white you get patted down checked out and generally offended by the TSA. If you are a kid, even more so.

But soon if you are Muslim and offended you will be exempted. Okay who here can justify this please. If you can, I applaud how much you have to contort and generally stick your head up your ass to do so.

Since this story is a year and a half old, do we know what the outcome of the request was?
I honestly don't know, but my money is on 'REJECTED'
A group is free to make requests, and government officials are free to 'consider' those requests by filing them in the wastepaper basket.
Anywho, it is not very lawyerly of me to ask a question to which I don't know the answer, but it seems to me that you jumped to a conclusion (ie that an exemption was going to be made for muslims) that leads to a dramatic headline, but that is not based on facts at all.
So I can not defend a pretend story.
Definitely willing to be proven wrong, but my very cursory internet search has repeatedly come up with the November 16 2010 story of Neapolitano 'considering' a request.
Willing to read any update or info on the story

Originally Posted by Wlessard

If you are white you get patted down checked out and generally offended by the TSA. If you are a kid, even more so.

Just curious how many times you've flown with a kid recently and what your personal experiences have been?

In the last three years I've flown with my son (between the ages of one and a half and four and a half) four times, both domestically and internationally.

Not only has he not been exposed to any undue scrutiny but on every occasion the TSA folks have actually gone out of their way to ensure that my family didn't incur any undue strees as a result of the security procedures.

Most recently a very helpful young man actually opened another lane at the security checkpoint so that we, as well as several other families travling with young children, were able to more or less "breeze through" (in the interest of full disclosure, we were returning from Disney World so there were a signifigant number of families with young children in the line).

My wife is pregant so we were a little concerned about the danger that might be posed by those new shortwave scanners they're using so I button-holed one of the security guys and asked him if there was any danger. The dude fell all over himself assuring me that there was no danger, were she to be exposed, but also made it clear that only one member of each party was required to go through that scanner and he didn't much care which of us it was. I volunteered and he was perfectly content with that.

None of us have been patted down (ever) and the only real hiccup in our recent travel was an invasive bag search because my son's LeapPad was in my carry on. Even though I asked the guy at the inbound end of the bag x-ray machine if I had to take it out of the bag (like a laptop) and was told "no" they still wanted to take a closer look at it once it came out the other end. Boo hoo, poor fucking me.

I hear an awful lot of complaining about TSA, and I've personally had one or two run-ins with douchebag TSA "agents", but on the whole I've found the vast majority to be perfect professionals.

I certainly have never felt like I was being held to a higher (more discriminatory?) standard because of politically correct profiling.

I'd certainly agree that the TSA is a bullshit agency and that 95% of the things our government is doing in the name of "protecting us from the terroists" are flat out fucking gay (as well as useless), but, again, I've never felt like I was singled out for being white while apparent Arabs/Muslims were handled with kid gloves.

Originally Posted by tsquare

It's not about air travel safety... it's about being politically correct.

It was never about air travel saftey. Janet Napolitano and John Pistole are horrible jokes.

Originally Posted by Twelfth

It's a backlash due to the fact that previously if you were "openly muslim/arabic" you were definitely going to be "randomly" selected. It was almost a certainty, had a friend travel out to Pennsylvania and back on his own, he's Colombian, dark skin, thick accent, lived in America all his life, and he got "randomly selected both times, on a plane of over 100 people.

You mean all those white guys that Hijack planes are going to be given a pass?

Originally Posted by soot

Just curious how many times you've flown with a kid recently and what your personal experiences have been?

In the last three years I've flown with my son (between the ages of one and a half and four and a half) four times, both domestically and internationally.

Not only has he not been exposed to any undue scrutiny but on every occasion the TSA folks have actually gone out of their way to ensure that my family didn't incur any undue strees as a result of the security procedures.

Most recently a very helpful young man actually opened another lane at the security checkpoint so that we, as well as several other families travling with young children, were able to more or less "breeze through" (in the interest of full disclosure, we were returning from Disney World so there were a signifigant number of families with young children in the line).

My wife is pregant so we were a little concerned about the danger that might be posed by those new shortwave scanners they're using so I button-holed one of the security guys and asked him if there was any danger. The dude fell all over himself assuring me that there was no danger, were she to be exposed, but also made it clear that only one member of each party was required to go through that scanner and he didn't much care which of us it was. I volunteered and he was perfectly content with that.

None of us have been patted down (ever) and the only real hiccup in our recent travel was an invasive bag search because my son's LeapPad was in my carry on. Even though I asked the guy at the inbound end of the bag x-ray machine if I had to take it out of the bag (like a laptop) and was told "no" they still wanted to take a closer look at it once it came out the other end. Boo hoo, poor fucking me.

I hear an awful lot of complaining about TSA, and I've personally had one or two run-ins with douchebag TSA "agents", but on the whole I've found the vast majority to be perfect professionals.

I certainly have never felt like I was being held to a higher (more discriminatory?) standard because of politically correct profiling.

I'd certainly agree that the TSA is a bullshit agency and that 95% of the things our government is doing in the name of "protecting us from the terroists" are flat out fucking gay (as well as useless), but, again, I've never felt like I was singled out for being white while apparent Arabs/Muslims were handled with kid gloves.

Cool, you voluntarily got yourself blasted by the scanner. For some people, that are more skeptical and intelligent, they don't do that.

Originally Posted by soot

Just curious how many times you've flown with a kid recently and what your personal experiences have been?

In the last three years I've flown with my son (between the ages of one and a half and four and a half) four times, both domestically and internationally.

Not only has he not been exposed to any undue scrutiny but on every occasion the TSA folks have actually gone out of their way to ensure that my family didn't incur any undue strees as a result of the security procedures.

Most recently a very helpful young man actually opened another lane at the security checkpoint so that we, as well as several other families travling with young children, were able to more or less "breeze through" (in the interest of full disclosure, we were returning from Disney World so there were a signifigant number of families with young children in the line).

My wife is pregant so we were a little concerned about the danger that might be posed by those new shortwave scanners they're using so I button-holed one of the security guys and asked him if there was any danger. The dude fell all over himself assuring me that there was no danger, were she to be exposed, but also made it clear that only one member of each party was required to go through that scanner and he didn't much care which of us it was. I volunteered and he was perfectly content with that.

None of us have been patted down (ever) and the only real hiccup in our recent travel was an invasive bag search because my son's LeapPad was in my carry on. Even though I asked the guy at the inbound end of the bag x-ray machine if I had to take it out of the bag (like a laptop) and was told "no" they still wanted to take a closer look at it once it came out the other end. Boo hoo, poor fucking me.

I hear an awful lot of complaining about TSA, and I've personally had one or two run-ins with douchebag TSA "agents", but on the whole I've found the vast majority to be perfect professionals.

I certainly have never felt like I was being held to a higher (more discriminatory?) standard because of politically correct profiling.

I'd certainly agree that the TSA is a bullshit agency and that 95% of the things our government is doing in the name of "protecting us from the terroists" are flat out fucking gay (as well as useless), but, again, I've never felt like I was singled out for being white while apparent Arabs/Muslims were handled with kid gloves.

When I was a punk kid of less than 25 I loved to drive everywhere. I have been to almost 1/2 the States in the Union between business and fun. I got older and when I was traveling for the DoD it was before 9/11. In the last 10 years I have only flown once and that was to go cross country 1st class to get married the second and last time. This was before the intrusive actions in the last few years. Since I have made a point of driving where ever I need to go and planning my trips based on that. It is also because when I go somewhere for vacation I lug 2 80lb dogs along and I am not going to subject a 14+ year old dog to a plane flight.

My Mother in Law, God rest her soul, had flown about a 1/2 dozen times in the 5 years prior to passing away. Four of those 6 times she was pulled out of line for a pat down. A 70 something lady with an artificial knee. 66% of the time she was patted down. Not a check the paperwork from the doctor but the TSA gropes. I have also read many incidents where young children are patted down.

As far as I am concerned even one groping pat down of a child is too much. If touched a child the way the TSA does I would be behind bars for pedophilia. I can find no justification for it in any shape or form.

Also to just the fact that the government was considering exempting one segment of the public from the procedure, whether it was implemented or not, is wrong.

We used to have something called equal treatment under the law in this country. Now we have equal treatment unless you are some minority that political correctness needs to protect your wussy ass from someone else insulting you. What happened to sticks and stones but words will never hurt me?

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Cool, you voluntarily got yourself blasted by the scanner. For some people, that are more skeptical and intelligent, they don't do that.

Not unless they're wearing their tin foil hats...

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Wlessard

When I was a punk kid of less than 25 I loved to drive everywhere. I have been to almost 1/2 the States in the Union between business and fun. I got older and when I was traveling for the DoD it was before 9/11. In the last 10 years I have only flown once and that was to go cross country 1st class to get married the second and last time. This was before the intrusive actions in the last few years. Since I have made a point of driving where ever I need to go and planning my trips based on that. It is also because when I go somewhere for vacation I lug 2 80lb dogs along and I am not going to subject a 14+ year old dog to a plane flight.

I don't understand the relevance of any of that but I'll concede that it's all completely reasonable behavior.

My Mother in Law, God rest her soul, had flown about a 1/2 dozen times in the 5 years prior to passing away. Four of those 6 times she was pulled out of line for a pat down. A 70 something lady with an artificial knee. 66% of the time she was patted down. Not a check the paperwork from the doctor but the TSA gropes.

I'll take your word for it.

I have also read many incidents where young children are patted down.

I've read a few.

I've never read anything to suggest that kids are targeted.

It's actually my understanding that patdowns are only employed when children set of metal detectors.

If a parent can't be responsible for ensuring that their child doesn't set off a metal detector (mine never has, neither have I) I fail to see how that can be considered profiling.

As far as I am concerned even one groping pat down of a child is too much. If touched a child the way the TSA does I would be behind bars for pedophilia. I can find no justification for it in any shape or form.

I don't disagree with that at all.

Like I said, I believe that the procedures being employed are bullshit.

I don't see any need for the TSA or for any of their asinine safety measures.

But so long as the rules are whhat they are the question that remains, given the OP, is "Are children or non-Arab/Muslim appearing people subjected to TSA scrutiny at a greater rate than Arab/Muslim appearing people?" and I think then the answer, at least in my experience, and according to existing regulations, has to be 'no'.

Also to just the fact that the government was considering exempting one segment of the public from the procedure, whether it was implemented or not, is wrong.

I disagree with you there.

I don't really think that "considering" anything is wrong.

I think that "doing" something can be wrong, or "doing" something to one group while "not doing" it to another can be wrong, but just considering a constiutent's complaints, concerns, or criticisims long enough to determine that what they'd like to happen isn't appropriate is certainly acceptable in my book.

We used to have something called equal treatment under the law in this country.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in relation to what we're actuallly discussing here no groups are being afforded any special considerations, are they?

Other than children I mean, who can't be randomly selected for patdowns while they're still under the age of 12 and who don't have to remove their shoes for screening when going through security like everyone else ( regardless of whether they're white, black, Christian, Muslim, Polish, Saudi, etc..)

Now we have equal treatment unless you are some minority that political correctness needs to protect your wussy ass from someone else insulting you.

What special treatment are people (other than children) actually being afforded?

Originally Posted by soot

Not unless they're wearing their tin foil hats...

:rolleyes:

If you want to believe that, that's fine. But there's nothing tinfoil about it because it's documented that they lied...I mean, made a mistake on how much radiation those things put out. On top of that, there haven't been any long term studies. It's cool though, if you want to think that rays bombarding your body, that are strong enough to see through your clothes, won't do anything it's on you. Just don't expect anyone to pay for any medical bills if it comes out later that there actually is a problem with it.

PS. Oh, and it was demonstrated that the scanners are almost completely ineffective in congressional hearings. So basically, it was all for nothing.