Thread: Is Zimmerman Guilty of Murder 2?

Originally Posted by Wagner

The only one who can attest to how Trayvon Martin was behaving that night is George Zimmerman.

I might not take his word at face value with the charges he is facing but Martin's history of suspensions and expulsions for drug use, vandalism, and theft gives those words a fair amount of credibility.

And George Zimmerman's long history of making petty 911 calls, pretending he was the neighborhood watch captain, and seeing suspicious characters behind every tree ("These assholes always get away.") give, I believe, a fair amount of credibility to my characterization of Zimmerman as a wannabe hero looking for a cause.

Originally Posted by soot

And George Zimmerman's long history of making petty 911 calls, pretending he was the neighborhood watch captain, and seeing suspicious characters behind every tree ("These assholes always get away.") give, I believe, a fair amount of credibility to my characterization of Zimmerman as a wannabe hero looking for a cause.

And yet for someone who researches things for a living you couldn't substantiate any of that rhetoric.

Originally Posted by lutherf

...we need to base our decisions on the evidence which is available.

I am.

All the evidence, not just that which exonerates Zimmerman and incriminates Martin.

And as I've said all along, I'm only basing my opinion on the evidence that's publicly available and will gladdly change my opinion should further evidence come to light.

But based on what I know now, and on what I know of the law (which, as I've said, is not conclusive in either regard), it is my opinion that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder (and I've defended him against such charges here on this forum at great length) but is certainly guilty of manslaughter.

You're certainly welcome to a different opinion.

...but it is what the media has pumped out by the terabyte.

I wouldn't know.

Originally Posted by soot

I am.

All the evidence, not just that which exonerates Zimmerman and incriminates Martin.

And as I've said all along, I'm only basing my opinion on the evidence that's publicly available and will gladdly change my opinion should further evidence come to light.

But based on what I know now, and on what I know of the law (which, as I've said, is not conclusive in either regard), it is my opinion that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder (and I've defended him against such charges here on this forum at great length) but is certainly guilty of manslaughter.

You're certainly welcome to a different opinion.



I wouldn't know.

Where is the evidence that Martin was just walking down the street minding his own business? Are you referring to the phone call with his GF? If so then how do you figure that she could have seen what Trayvon was doing? Hell, we haven't even seen her affidavit but we have audio recordings of Zimmerman's observations. Why would you possibly put more stock in something that you have next to no tangible evidence for than you would in something you can actually observe?

Originally Posted by Wagner

And yet for someone who researches things for a living you couldn't substantiate any of that rhetoric.

Substantiation

Originally Posted by soot

Substantiation

That Zimmerman called 911 the night he followed Martin is an established fact. What isn't is your characterization of him as a piece of shit wannabe hero looking for a cause or however you put it and it is that rhetoric I'm questioning. A snarky link to a Google query that mostly returns that 911 call most certainly DOES NOT substantiate those claims.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Not that I want to start another thread on this or compete with the long one in progress but I was wondering, given all the facts as we know them, how many people here at USPOL think George Zimmerman is guilty of the charge of 2nd degree murder, "grave indifference to human life?"

I think manslaughter he is definitely guilty of. "grave indifference to human life, for 2nd degree murder"--may be a stretch--but obviously the prosecutor's office believes it has enough evidence and audio recordings to convince a jury of it. It doesn't help that Zimmerman's bond was revoked today and he was ordered back to jail.

Judge revokes George Zimmerman bond in Trayvon Martin killing | Fox News

Originally Posted by Oreo

I think manslaughter he is definitely guilty of.

He will never be guilty of that, because he has not been charged with that. He will not be tried for it, nor can he be found guilty of it as a lesser charge.

The DA is painted into a corner. She has to go for a murder charge to shut up the racist dipshits who would otherwise flood her office with calls and complaints.

She's going to lose this case, and Zimmerman will walk because she went for a murder conviction.

Originally Posted by Oreo

I think manslaughter he is definitely guilty of. "grave indifference to human life, for 2nd degree murder"--may be a stretch--but obviously the prosecutor's office believes it has enough evidence and audio recordings to convince a jury of it. It doesn't help that Zimmerman's bond was revoked today and he was ordered back to jail.

Judge revokes George Zimmerman bond in Trayvon Martin killing | Fox News

Manslaughter would have been the appropiate charge, going by what I know of the case, or perhaps no charge. The evidence will confirm that. As happens too often, as in the Casey Anthony deal, the DA over charges. Now, I think she did it because she holds an elected office, and the pressure created by the lame stream entertainment companies known as the media caused it.

If the 2nd degree sticks, I will be shocked.

Originally Posted by Jasper

He will never be guilty of that, because he has not been charged with that. He will not be tried for it, nor can he be found guilty of it as a lesser charge.

The DA is painted into a corner. She has to go for a murder charge to shut up the racist dipshits who would otherwise flood her office with calls and complaints.

She's going to lose this case, and Zimmerman will walk because she went for a murder conviction.

In Florida, the jury absolutely can return a Manslaughter conviction as a lesser included charge if they feel the State has proven the elements of Manslaughter but not Murder 2.

One of many easily located references on the matter: Lesser-Included Offenses | Miami Dade County Criminal Lawyer

Originally Posted by MattInFla

In Florida, the jury absolutely can return a Manslaughter conviction as a lesser included charge if they feel the State has proven the elements of Manslaughter but not Murder 2.

One of many easily located references on the matter: Lesser-Included Offenses | Miami Dade County Criminal Lawyer

I dont think a lesser offense was included in the charge.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

I dont think a lesser offense was included in the charge.

From what I have read, there is no requirement to include it. There is a standard set of lesser included charges in the standard jury instruction.

Originally Posted by Oreo

I think manslaughter he is definitely guilty of.

Originally Posted by MattInFla

In Florida, the jury absolutely can return a Manslaughter conviction as a lesser included charge if they feel the State has proven the elements of Manslaughter but not Murder 2.

Hmmm. I had not considered the poll to be multiple choice. Does anyone know when the trial is supposed to begin?