They're an order of magnitude less efficient than Prowler.

JASSM not operational. There are of course naval Tomahawks but we were discussing strategic bombers.

I pay in Euros. The more I wait, the less I'll pay. I'll pay later if you don't mind.

How are you measuring that?

True, I was pointing the JASSM out to show we still can, and do, produce ASCMs.

No worries.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

They are quite capable, I agree. However, I just don't see Finnish submarines being able to strike at one of our CAGs.

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Sauna wars.. lol.
(SAUNA = Society Against UNnecessary Acronyms)

Hmm.. there was talk about the winter fighting capabilities.. I have to tell you that just like people in most western countries, Finns do live in warm houses. Also last time Finns have seen combat was in 1945. But war time would then again change peoples attitudes to what luxuries they would need. The talk I have heard about our AA capabilities don't fill me with confidence, way too little in numbers, but Fennica might know more about this than me. I also think that we would get weapons from Russia in this scenario. Can't imagine how EU would take an attack against one of its member states. Maybe they would send a strongly worded letter to the US. Somehow I recall one Chirac statement that Finland is under the French nuclear umbrella.. still wouldn't have too much faith on his words.

Maybe it would be more useful to study what kind of effect the Nato air power had on Serbia, than making comparisons to Iraq war.

Calling up 350 000 troops would also take some time.. but of course it would take the US also time to get everything set up for war.

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I duck, therefore i cover.

As a case with any conscriptional, it varys. Great equipment and exellent materia alongside old hardware. What matters then is training.

That is what I am layingmy claim on also. I am assuming that U.S. task force would have to use seaborne assault, for there are no staging areas nearby. Any land and seafall would have to face defenders who have knowledge of terrain and larger manforce in a specific place.

Our shallow and rocky coast prevent much of the naval activity, and coastal defence would cause losses to them.
Also the question of U.S. tolerance of losses would play a role. Their forces would most likely have a "walk over" mentality which would make them underestimate the defender and create additional losses.
And smart bombs often need ground places quidance. HArd to imagine that U.S. troops could stay hidden and accomplish mission and make a succesful extraction.
Thorhammer is founding his thoughts on Iraq, but here Gunships would suffer, Finnish pride of precicion artillery and mortar-fire would be a brutal surprise.

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

Have to go to bed, will read and reply at lenghts tomorrow.
We have a highly trained though smallairforce, 64 Hornets as interceptors. No AWACS, but electronical warfare is well established(Nokia).
Great radar system with long, mid and short range radar surveillance.

Interceptors are not the only thing keeping the air clear though. FActories ara a priority.
G'nigh

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

Come on, Thorhammer. The F18 sucks horrendously...

I dont understand why Finland and Denmark didnt buy SU-27 Flanker or the newest MIG, instead of the F-18s and F16s they have now.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

What exactly does the French airforce consist of anyway?

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

M2000, Mirage F1, Rafale, Super Etendard. Jaguars are retired, I think. That's it for fighter bombers.

Not many American fighters I see, but whats the amount of each? I thought that France had Tornados too.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!

lol...Well, we had Crusaders, and we almost bought some F-18 for the Navy because the Rafale was late. Tornado is UK-Germany-Italy, I think. You can find amounts on wiki.

Mirage 2000 - 286
Mirage F1 - 109
Rafale - 33 delivered out of a total of about 250 (don't know precisely)
SuE - Not listed (about 50, I suppose)

Shitload of non-fighter types.

And what are you basing this thought on?

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

I think they are holdling out for the F-35. I know Denmark was a partner in their development.

__________________
I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

It's slooooow...