Nothing wrong with .223 in the proper application. I've got my M1A1 garand in .308 if I need a heavier round.

True, it's fantastic small game round.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

That's nonsense. I've shot whitetail deer and 300lbs wild boar with .223 very effectively.


My mini-14 ranch another great vehicle for .223


My .54 caliber Thompson contender Hawkins - in case I have to shoot a grizzly...

Pretty impressive, you must be a damned good shot to be able to down deer with a .223. Understandably, it’s not even legal to hunt big game with the .223 in many states.

Percussion cap is cheating. PA limits muzzleloader season to flintlocks. That adds a whole new dimension to the hunt, never being quite sure if the gun is going to go bang when you pull the trigger. I use a .50 cal Hawkins, flintlock of course.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

I don't think it's that impressive. I am a good shot, been shooting since I was eight - so that's forty years to get it right.

I don't subscribe to the nonsense that the .223 round is not effective on medium to large game. Hell, on the the family farm, we've shot plenty of deer that dropped instantly with .22 rounds.

This was night shooting with a spotlight (and a pest control permit from the state) to bring down the size of the herds feeding on the crops. We'd shoot about 20 does a night for three or four days in different fields - all with .22 rifles.

I took my first deer - a mule deer weighing over 200lbs at 300 yards with my older brothers .220 custom sako - which is even lighter than the .223 round.

I love my .308 and my 12 gauge - but I can't understand this unsubstantiated position over the capacity of the .223 round - my lifetime's worth of experience suggests otherwise...


My Winchester 94 in the manly caliber of .45 longcolt (with the mandatory John Wayne loop)

My experience with the .223 says otherwise. As a hunting caliber, it may be ok, but it isn’t something I’d want to trust with my life. I’ve already gone thru the ballistics in this thread:
Replace the m4/m16?

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

So now your inadequacies as a shooter condemn the round?

I see you keep adding qualifiers to your argument...

my Sig is nice

My favorite pistol

My main complaint with the 5.56mm is that I feel it is entirely inadequate as a combat round. There were complaints about its combat effectiveness of the 55 grain round as soon as it was introduced in Vietnam. An attempt was made to address these deficiencies in the 80’s with the adaptation of the 62 grain SS109 bullet. It was certainly a step forward, but it still didn’t have reliable long range terminal ballistics. Most recently, the military has introduced the MK 262 77 grain bullet for engagements beyond 300 to 400 meters. As far as I’m concerned, these are all Band-Aid measures that are attempting to make a poor caliber selection moderately field effective. I’m a strong advocate of the military scrapping the 5.56mm. Surely we’ve come up with something far more effective in the half century since it was developed. The 6.5mm Grendel looks rather promising as a replacement.

Personally, I wouldn’t use the .223 for hunting anything more than, perhaps, coyote. For Deer season, I’ll stick to my .270 or my .50 Hawkins.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

I'm no longer in the military. Not a big fan of the Grendel though...

My HBAR has a 1:7 twist and I shoot Winchester's 64grain Super X power points very effectively out to 300 yards.

Every deer I've shot with this round has dropped in it's tracks - but whatever - to each their own.

This is what I normally hunt wild boar with; my ruger blackhawk in .45 longcolt and my blackhawk in .357 magnum.

The shorter barrel is the .45 longcolt Ruger.

I love the M-2 .50 Cal Machine Gun. There's a reason it is still the primary heavy MG of thr US Military. Because it kicks ass and can take a lot of abuse. It'll open up a car like a can-opener. I fired it a few times while in the army, woo-hoo!



My kid neighbor that is heading off to Parris Island tomorrow owns an SVD Dragunov, a Russian sniper rifle. I have not fired it but it looks nifty.

http://www.rollanet.org/~stacyw/russ...unov_sling.jpg

I did get to fire a M-1927A Thompson submachine gun while in the army, now that was FUN!

http://www.ctuclan.us/CoD%20Page/tommygun_63.jpg

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"I am no Martin Luther King or Ghandi motherfucker. I have no idea what those guys were talking about. You spit on my ass, I will knock you out. No motherfucking marching and singing in the street for me." - Jim Brown, NFL Hall-of-Famer and Cleveland Browns running back, 1957-1965

I used Dragunov while in the Rangers, and it kicks like a mule.
It weights the same as the AK-47, but fires long 7,62mm, so it is very powerful.

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En uneksi. I do not dream.

A piece like that sure as shit open up gooks pretty effectively too - if you can believe the latest Rambo movie.

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January the 20th 2009. The day I started to respect America!