That is absolutely correct...the enemies of the Republic are your enemies. But to address your concern should you be a CO...there are hundreds of jobs for non combatants...far more of them than the combat roles. The point is, if you are a citizen of the republic you should be willing to respond and if not and the need arises the nation can call on you for your, "involuntary servitude."

Have a good day.

I'd say your fascism is a bigger threat to the Republic.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

It answers the commentary. We did in fact draft men in WW2, Korea and Nam. This is nothing new save for those who have grown up under the glare of MTV.

Your premise is defective...[ if we get to the point were we need to force citizens to fight then we have lost the right to remain. We have become decedent and weak]

That my friend is sitting around the table at StarBucks talk or frat house conversation or the rap session with those who also live in the pastel world of their own creation. I can tell you with authority that a conscription will occur any time there is a need to fill the ranks. Even in these time when so many male have become emasculated, feminized...not saying they are gay but merely have lost what was part of Americana early on in our history going back no further than Pearl Harbor.

I would think that the majority of posters to this forum were not yet born in 1941 and a few might have experienced Nam.

When the hammer is down...the call will be sounded...one way or the other. The national government is not going to get involved in a philosophical discussion with young men who choose to opt out. The real world will come rushing in like the tidal wave in the recent Indian Ocean.

Have a good day.

You use WW2, Korea, and Vietnam as examples to support conscription? If you had any idea of the military realites in today's world you would understand just how shallow your attempted comparison is. Still, on a certain level, I am not really surprised that you went down that road.

My premise is not defective in anyway. If a government cannot rally its people to fight for their nation then that government has just been shown it no longer has the support of the people. By what right does that government have to turn around and force people to support it. Obviously the people aren't willing to fight for their government, nor die for it. It has failed.

However, if the mainland is threatened and the war still enjoys popular support among the people, there would be no shortage of volunteers and no need for conscription.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology[1][2][3][4] and a corporatist economic ideology developed in Italy.[5] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[6]

Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[7] Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[8] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.[9]

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.[10][11] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state").[12][13] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any concise definition.[14]

Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II and the publicity surrounding the atrocities committed during the period of fascist governments, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word.[15]

***
You hit one point in the definition of "facism" but to be congruent with the entire philosophy of facism neither the USA or myself qualify for the label. What you propose is the "slacker mentality." That of letting others do what needs to be done and then when it is over...you'll reap the rewards. The slacker mentality is extant in all cultures and all nations. The slacker is the impotent young man, one who cannot cope with the real world. His "philosophy" for not serving is a mask, an actors role to justify why he is not doing his duty. But...all that aside, when and if the need arises conscription will once again be the flavor of the month. Never doubt it.

Have a good one.

Oh yes, I am a slacker. You are new here, and don't know my background, so it is unsurprising that you would claim that. My mentality is not that of a slacker, but as a true citizen and a citizen who has served. So spare me your fucking 'slacker' BS. My ass has picked up a rifle and put rounds down range for this country. I have done and continue to do my duty. Fascists and statists like you don't need to force me.

I do not doubt that conscription would be implemented in a scenario where the mainland is threatened. However, I do not think it would be needed and I would work to ensure that anyone who does not want to serve is not forced to.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

Fine...the whole point of conscription is to fill the void. If volunteers meet the need...no conscription.

The realities today are not fundamentally different than WW2, Korea and Nam, Iraq or A'Stan. So far we have been able to address the theatres we have involved ourselves but stretched thin. Manpower is needed regardless of the advances in weaponry...it will never change. Science fiction can write the screen play but the "boots on the ground" is still a necessity.

And yes...your premise that if there are not enough partriots to meet the need the republic deserves to fall. That is NOT real world policy. It never has been and never will be. Every government seeks to perpetuate itself and if conscription is necessary it will be employed.

May I ask how old you are? The year of your high school or college graduating?

Thanks.

Those wars are vastly different in terms of the societies involved and firepower available to militaries, as well as tactics used. While boots on the ground are still needed they are not need in the numbers we saw in, say, WW2, Korea, or even Vietnam.

I agree that every government wants to perpetuate itself, and I am not arguing that the government wouldn't institute the draft. What I am arguing, is the government doesn't have the right to force someone to fight for it.

My age and my graduation date have nothing to do with this topic.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

We have drafted men in every US war until after Vietnam and most vets I know, including my late husband (a Vietnam vet), father (Korean War era vet), uncles and father-in-law (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) nephews and cousins (Vietnam and Gulf War vets), etc. have all said they'd rather be in a foxhole with a man that chose the service as opposed to one that the service chose.
Today's military enlistees aren't the high school dropouts that you get with a draft. They choose to serve and in most cases, serve honorably whereas many draftees didn't give a damn about wearing the uniform and did plenty of things to disgrace it. I don't want to see that again.
I doubt we ever see another draft, short of a world war, because there's so many on both sides of the aisle who oppose it.

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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride!"

If your drafting system just got those kind of people into the military back then, it's more due to the lack of burocratic/administral qualities and not due to the draft system itself.

I've served as a draftie and I had a true cross over sellection of society serving with me and no matter what pro-professionals might believe, we had more talent and intelligence amongst our ranks, than your profesional military can ever imagine to recruit.

Every damn job/profession was presented, a fair split of educational backgrounds was presented and even the worthless elite's sons were serving.

At least in my unit and during my time no extreme hidding away from service was present and I truely do like it that way.

Anyway I've only seen the all professional US-army once during my service and to be honest they totaly sucked and been a disgrace to their (or anyone's) uniform ( probably because they were forced to do something they weren't trained to do), but again, good , nationalistic German drafties wouldn't have acted that disgracful and pathetic imho.

At the end it just comes down to it, that draftie or professional or not, all that is needed is professional leadership and a clear political mission.

If a government fails to deliver that basic neccesity, every military will fail and degenerate imho.

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"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

Totaly agree and before it used to be that way over here.

Being born somewhere is no accomplishment, only showing that you are willing to serve/protect/help your own society truely makes oneself a real worthy citizen!

Hide away hedonistic bastards don't deserve that holly status and imo should ask themselves why their ancestors immigarated to the US at the first place.

Being passive slaves was for sure not part of their motication!

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"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

I think we have to be clear and careful as to whether we are discussing necessary or unnecessary conscription.

Necessary conscription assumes we are in a clear and overwhelming military struggle for the existence of our polity and our voluntary resources are clearly inadequate to the demand.

We needed conscription in WWII, very few people really disputed that but we still needed it, the horrors of modern war are such that most people aren't suited for it, patriotic or no and most people know this about themselves

There are people who are suited to it, and they are not natural born killers or criminals either. Military arts have a truly horrific overall goal, yes, but as a general field of endeavor it has elements of unique challenge and keen interest unparalled in nearly any other field. Soldiering is an honorable trade.

And this second group is generally adequate to the needs of any nation in peacetime. The unnecessary conscript armies of the 50's and 60's were clearly a travesty and remain a blot on our record as a "free" country, though they acquited themselves to their own great credit nevertheless.

My problem is the people who either want to use the army as a sort of giant training camp for wayward youth or think we can adopt he Swiss Army model here. Both ideas are amazingly expensive and woefully ineffective.

The system we have now works just fine for fighting wars. Our problem is the politicians, constantly getting us involved in wars we shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

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Alizee Jacotay, the reason god invented hips

We have a National Guard, including air and sea components. There is no reason not to have conscription to it so long as is not used as a combat force on foreign soil, as it is at times today.

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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin

Greetings and Felicitations,

The warrior doesn't have enemies. The warrior only has opponents.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

As someone who has been fired upon in anger, I can tell you that you could not be more wrong than you are with that statement...

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For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...