Thread: US work holiday entitlement?

Originally Posted by PeterUK75

Are you seriously asking that? Why not go a step further and not pay them any tea break and heaven forbid they go to the toilet the lazy buggers.
Giving people holiday is both good for the employee and good for the company as it gives people time to recharge and not feel like they are just a cog in the machine in some Dickensian workhouse.

As for being productive yes that's great and all but to be honest (you can call me a hippy for this if you like) I'd take having a decent work/life balance any day.

Again sorry if that sounds harsh but it just feels like some of you are sticking up for companies who are screwing people over with rubbish holiday entitlement.

Not harsh at all. If one is looking for employment in the US, it's not at all unusual to negotiate time off, or see what the company's policy is. If they don't give much time off, you're free to continue your job search until you find a place that offers an amount of time that is reasonable to you. My current company gives an incredibly large amount of time off, comparable to the UK and Europe. Other companies may start you off with only eight hours of time off and you build up from there. It changes company by company.

It's not really as bad as it sounds, though.

Originally Posted by ArmyCowboy

The US military learned long ago that a liberal leave/holiday policy promoted better Soldiers.

People like me who are employers in the private sector have learned that too. If you don't give workers enough time off you'll burn them out. The law of diminishing returns eventually kicks in.

Originally Posted by PeterUK75

I hope I'm not being rude here but I prefer the system we have in Europe where we have a statutory minimum level of annual leave.

In general Europeans are lazier than Americans. In fact Americans are the most productive workers in the world.

Originally Posted by AjaxPress

In general Europeans are lazier than Americans. In fact Americans are the most productive workers in the world.

Any proof for that? Any first hand experience of working in Europe?

I recently talked with a German who worked at a American company in Japan before... he said it's alot harder to get used to working in Europe again.
Alot more has to be done in fewer hours and it involves alot more personal responsibility and discipline.

Spending several hundreds hours more at work doesn't neccessarily increase productivity... it can actually reduce it.

Originally Posted by ArmyCowboy

The US military learned long ago that a liberal leave/holiday policy promoted better Soldiers.

Soldiers are salaried though.

Originally Posted by El_Zoido

Any proof for that? Any first hand experience of working in Europe?

I recently talked with a German who worked at a American company in Japan before... he said it's alot harder to get used to working in Europe again.
Alot more has to be done in fewer hours and it involves alot more personal responsibility and discipline.

Spending several hundreds hours more at work doesn't neccessarily increase productivity... it can actually reduce it.

It can, but we're not talking about 16 hour workdays like in the bad old days. It's kinda like supply side theory. Is a person more productive in 12 hours rather than 16? Possibly. But is that same person more productive in 7 hours than 8? Probably not. And if he was, why not just have him work 30 minutes and be super productive?

8 hours, 5 days, seems to be the ideal. European countries that have shifted to 35 hours or whatever seem to be hurting their productivity.

Originally Posted by adaher

It can, but we're not talking about 16 hour workdays like in the bad old days. It's kinda like supply side theory. Is a person more productive in 12 hours rather than 16? Possibly. But is that same person more productive in 7 hours than 8? Probably not. And if he was, why not just have him work 30 minutes and be super productive?

8 hours, 5 days, seems to be the ideal. European countries that have shifted to 35 hours or whatever seem to be hurting their productivity.

Average work Time in France are 38,5h per week... that's the lowest value in Europe I think.
In Germany it's an average of 41,2h per week. In both countries it's not unlikly that people work well over 50h at times.

The big difference to the US is respect for time of recreation in form of guranteed vacation days.

Most Americans get vacation, it's just not mandated by the government. It's just another part of the wages and benefits package that workers negotiate with their employers.

Originally Posted by adaher

Most Americans get vacation, it's just not mandated by the government. It's just another part of the wages and benefits package that workers negotiate with their employers.

In my experience working for US companies and with Americans for the last few years, Americans are much more likely not to use their vacation time and/or to do unpaid work while on vacation. They are also more likely to work unpaid overtime.

A lot of them would have been better off and more productive in the long run had they taken some time to rest and recover and to recharge the batteries.

I do not consider this additional work to be a plus, many do so because they are scared that someone will take over their job or find fault with their work when they are not there to defend it themselves.

Personally I make sure that my staff knows what is going on because I strive not only to make myself dispensable but to ensure that my staff can step up after this project to more responsibility at another project and to leverage what my team can achieve.

Originally Posted by adaher

Most Americans get vacation, it's just not mandated by the government. It's just another part of the wages and benefits package that workers negotiate with their employers.

I am sure they do... :rolleyes:
Knowing how hard it is to actually take the statutory leave, I am sure people manage to get what they bargained for without problem...
I think Europe and Americans have a different philosophy in those areas.

In little exaggerated terms:
Americans say that Europeans are lazy. Europeans look at America and think it's a bondslave-culutre.
Being proud to get a worse deal than all the other developed countries... that's quite a twist

Many Americans get a better deal. The downside to a riskless society is that it becomes a rewardless society.

Not everything needs to be mandated by the government. Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage.

Originally Posted by adaher

Many Americans get a better deal. The downside to a riskless society is that it becomes a rewardless society.

Not everything needs to be mandated by the government. Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage.

Germany also doesn't have a minimum wage
Besides, while the minimum number of vacation days is statutory, they have to be earned before one can take them.

Having some time off for rest & recreation is not really seen as a reward to be earned from hard work.
The income is the reward for work. Income can be low for jobs with a low market value and very high for jobs with a high market value.
Vacation on the other hand is a right and important for individual and familiy life. Having a right for some days of is in many ways part of the european understanding of personal liberty.

Besides:
The health factor of actual time for regeneration can not be understated.
Something rather important when employers and employees both pay for healthcare.

Everyone gets vacations. Even when I made minimum wage, I took a week off once in awhile even though I didn't get paid. If you need time off, you take time off. I don't think getting paid to not work is some kind of divine right.