Thread: Is it any wonder some people think the Tea Party is a bunch of Mad Hatters?

The claim that the tea party has anything at all to do with spending is ridiculous. Republicans (and the tea party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the republican party) only care about spending when it's the dems who get to pick where the money goes.

Is there any relationship between this thread and Immigration?

There doesn't appear to be. Moved.

Originally Posted by goober

It's a call for national suicide, which looks pretty crazy to the reality based community.....

Sorry, Goob, but you're wrong (again).

That "reality-based" community to which you refer is, in reality, the "head stuck in the sand" community. They (a.k.a. you) hear the suggestion we're already taxed enough and all reason required to balance a budget apparently just flies out the window: Abandoned to your haste to disdain and criticize those who believe we are already taxed enough.

I'm one of those "taxed enough already" and have been for years: But I STILL openly criticized Bush when he rolled back taxes and rebated tax $$ to us (no, not just to the rich, I got some too) because it was not the time we should be doing such a thing. Bush said (as I've heard Obama lama ding dong also say) the debt such moves caused will be overtaken by our rising economy ... which obviously did not happen.

Today, those so-called "reality-based" community denizens cannot seem to get past their fiat that the ONLY way to reduce the debt is to wring every last dollar out of we, the people, to the exclusion of ALL OTHER reasonable measures. GOD forbid they should cut their staff or (gasp) reign in our foreign aid, or even review it. There is Obama's "debt commission" who's recommendations he has totally (and inexplicably) ignored. There was Reagan's Grace Commission report that was largely shelved and, then, mysteriously relegated to a back room somewhere. Yes, ONE way to cut the deficit is to steal more revenue from us. But another way, a way largely untried by the democrats, is to cut expenses.

Reducing taxes is not the right move right now. But neither is increasing them.

Originally Posted by goober

Setting an arbitrary limit on something like taxes, when all the evidence points to taxes being too low, is national suicide.

Why do so many advanced countries have higher tax rates than we do, and why did the country seem to be so much better off when taxes were higher?

Where is the logic that sets a tax rate so developed that you are willing to chisel that rate into the stone of the Constitution?

The Scandinavian countries pay much higher taxes than the United States.

Tax Tea Party Time? - Forbes.com

They retain AAA ratings with Moody's and Standard & Poor's.

As the U.S. Leaves, Who's Left Among Countries with Both Moody's, S&P AAA Ratings? | H...

They also have less public debt as a percentage of gross domestic product.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...noa&rank=38#us

Finally, they have responded better to the Great Recession than the United States has.

Originally Posted by Mandala

The Scandinavian countries pay much higher taxes than the United States.

Tax Tea Party Time? - Forbes.com

They retain AAA ratings with Moody's and Standard & Poor's.

As the U.S. Leaves, Who's Left Among Countries with Both Moody's, S&P AAA Ratings? | H...

They also have less public debt as a percentage of gross domestic product.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...noa&rank=38#us

Finally, they have responded better to the Great Recession than the United States has.

Some countries use higher taxes to provide services to ALL citizens rather than tax the rich to give to the poor in wealth redistribution. Those countries tend to do better in down business cycles because the tax money is effectively spread across the board.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

Some countries use higher taxes to provide services to ALL citizens rather than tax the rich to give to the poor in wealth redistribution. Those countries tend to do better in down business cycles because the tax money is effectively spread across the board.

Yes they do, and a good example is their healthcare. We know that pure socialism does not work.(except for the top) We know that exploitive capitalism doesn't work(except for the top) So some of these nations over there move in between the two, with better results.

I get tired when hearing about the high taxes in the US. We are way down on the list of TOTAL TAX RATES as a nation. Yet to listen to the cons, one would think the US was the highest taxed people in the world. They are bald faced liars. So why would they want to drop tax rates lower? The Bush tax cuts are still in effect with Obama reducing payroll tax for employees...so where is that economic growth that lower taxes always bring? All these cuts are doing is growing the national debt.

We are in economic waters we have never been in before. We have a high jobless rate which is directly attributed to exporting lower middle class jobs and well as upper middle class jobs. Stimulus spending does not work when you no longer have the factories that would be stimulated by consumer spending. But this isn't the only thing that no longer works with this new economic model.

Tax rates no longer work on stimulating economic growth. Dropping tax rates will achieve little in growth, job growth. We lost a sector of the economic engine, and there was nothing in place outside of bubbles that will take up the slack. That is a fact.

So, given the blossoming social safety net spending caused by globalization, we should jack up tax rates to the highest they have been since JFK in order to try to fix the collateral damage done to this nation by off shoring our industry. And to pay down the debt to a non dangerous level.

As long as we treat this new economic model like the old one, we will only dig this hole deeper.

Originally Posted by Mandala

The Scandinavian countries pay much higher taxes than the United States.

Tax Tea Party Time? - Forbes.com

They retain AAA ratings with Moody's and Standard & Poor's.

As the U.S. Leaves, Who's Left Among Countries with Both Moody's, S&P AAA Ratings? | H...

They also have less public debt as a percentage of gross domestic product.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...noa&rank=38#us

Finally, they have responded better to the Great Recession than the United States has.

Have you bothered to check into what percentage of these Scandinavians pay tax as compared to the US? Take Sweden as an example. Pretty much EVERYBODY pays taxes in the 30% range and above plus they pay VAT on everything they buy and an additional health tax. Taxation - Sweden -

In Finland you might get a little more of a break at the extreme low end of income but you will be paying more than 25% on anything over a very nominal income plus that VAT....of 23%!Taxation in Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just a couple of examples but if you really want to move into the "more tax is better" program I've got some great plans!

Originally Posted by dnsmith

Some countries use higher taxes to provide services to ALL citizens rather than tax the rich to give to the poor in wealth redistribution. Those countries tend to do better in down business cycles because the tax money is effectively spread across the board.

This is why it is misleading to simply compare tax levels in f.e. America and Central Europe/Scandinavia without looking at the story behind. While we pay a lot more taxes, a substantial amount of services that Americans have to pay for privately in ADDITION to taxes is included in our payments already. ( like healthcare, school/university fees etc.)
The ability to cope with downturns lies not just in the tax system, but also in the business culture. Like encouraging long-term solidity of companies over short term share-holder value. Like encouraging companies to keep their staff also during more difficult times and invest in their qualification instead of laying them off. Germany, Austria and Scandinavia f.e. use the "Kurzarbeit" model, that says companies can during periods of weakening demand put their employees on shorter hours instead of laying them off and the governement makes up the difference in pay. And once demand kicks in again, the pendulum swings the other way. Which is still cheaper than to have them on the dole. And especially having a real producing industry instead of phony "financial services".


Kurzarbeit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by FearandLoathing

Donald Trump, I thought, rather bravely took a stand on the birth certificate issue and, surprisingly, the president caved when he had not before.

But that isn't good enough for some people. The Tea Party, in Arizona has convinced the local Sheriff there is cause to investigate the authenticity of that long from document.

Agreed, if it did prove to be faked, it would be a scandal of historic proportions and probably lead to annulment of every bill OweBama signed.

I just have a hard time buying into the idea of a fake birth certificate. It require a massive conspiracy with too many people involved who would stand to benefit in the millions if they revealed it.

To answer your title, because some people assume a small group of people represent the entire movement. Which is wrong. Just because a few people call themselves the Tea Party doesnt make them define whatever the tea party is overall.

Originally Posted by jviehe

To answer your title, because some people assume a small group of people represent the entire movement. Which is wrong. Just because a few people call themselves the Tea Party doesnt make them define whatever the tea party is overall.

If only you were so tolerant of LIBERALS!

Originally Posted by USCitizen

If only you were so tolerant of LIBERALS!

I think we can all agree that leftwingnut and rightwingnut extremists are a waste of time. But I have problem with the label liberal. I have always considered myself liberal in most things and conservatives in others and I believe most people identify themselves in a similar manner. I believe it is the extreme on both sides who screw up the works. We moderates vote for the candidate most like our own philosophy but that candidate still almost always turns out to be extreme one way or the other. When do we get a chance to nominate and vote on a moderate?

Originally Posted by dnsmith

I think we can all agree that leftwingnut and rightwingnut extremists are a waste of time. But I have problem with the label liberal. I have always considered myself liberal in most things and conservatives in others and I believe most people identify themselves in a similar manner. I believe it is the extreme on both sides who screw up the works. We moderates vote for the candidate most like our own philosophy but that candidate still almost always turns out to be extreme one way or the other. When do we get a chance to nominate and vote on a moderate?

When we have more money than Rupert Murdoch...Never.