Thread: Occupy Wall Street

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

The kid in the white shirt:
"Capitalism is state force over the working class."
"Property requires a militarized force."
"Without police factories would not remain in hands of factory owners"
"If the state weren't protecting me I would have no rights whatsoever"
"I'm not a communist"
"The state is a mechanism to improve living conditions."
"We need money, they should be printing more money"

That kid sure seems a little confused there doesn't he? He also done wasting his time with freshman dorm talk...

Well he read a book and wants everyone to know he has the answers to the worlds problems. He needs to read more on Paul, because he doesn't know shit about the man.

Originally Posted by Oreo

Yeah--I couldn't believe it when he said that the STATE has "rights" over his own body???

Sounds like he was serving in the military. Maybe he's a military brat.

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

I agree. The Republicans and Clinton eliminated Glass-Steigall Act in '91, which set the stage for banks to go gambling with other people's money, i.e. no separation between commercial (low risk tolerant customer base) and investment *high risk tolerant customer base).

This set the stage for banks to invest in risky deals that pay off big and deliver massive bonuses to their managers, but exposing the common commercial banking customer to all kinds of risks they wouldn't want, and weren't made aware of. A compensating control would have been to increase the bank's reserve requirements, in case one of these risky deals went south, but of course, the bankers screamed bloody murder at that idea, so it didn't get far.

Along came ACRON, the Democratically controlled congress, and others, with their 'everyone should be a home owner, even if they can't afford it' mantra, and the next thing you have is Fanny and Freddy, under slime ball leadership and at a Democratically controlled congress's insistence, to be buying up all the crappy mortgages that the slime ball mortgage originators wrote to NINJAs, inflating the housing market beyond all control, which came crashing down as soon as the defaults started to roll in, as it was a house of cards anyway.

Yea, everyone had a hand in it, had their hand out, collected a bunch and suddenly became unaccountable, so now the tax payer is on the hook for it all, in addition to suffering through the worst economic period since the great depression.

Those that made all the money during this crazy period, they all laughed their way to the bank, so to speak.

I never understand why Freddie and Fannie ... Bush and Frank's cooperative effort to keep America working isn't viewed for what it was ... employment while we de-industrialized and built trade deficits.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

And you live and breath now becausee there have been businesses to supply the technology and goods you depend on. Was that a wasted investment?

And there were millions who died in gas chambers because business provided the chemicals. And there are millions who die of cancer and other diseases because business' put their waste in our water supplies, air, and soils. And sharks are going extinct because business wants to sell shark fin soup.. and so on, and so on.

There are many negative externalized costs of doing business as we know it that cause suffering for most people on this planet. (i.e., the need for coltan for electronics that helps fuel the mass rapes and murder of women and children in the Congo.)

I do not deny that many of us in the industrialized consumer countries all now depend on business for life as we know it. (this is pretty much a form of slavery). But life as we know it cannot go on much longer, there is no escaping that truth. The point is that business has created a world of profound unsustainability based on a fantasy of limitless economic growth, all the while funneling the wealth to a tiny minority of people.

Pretending the history of business is just a miracle of life giving goodness is very delusional.

Originally Posted by michael h

Who made the salad? That's what seems to get missed in the conversation.

I dont see corporations out their protesting their employees.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Pretending the history of business is just a miracle of life giving goodness is very delusional.

I've done nothing of the sort. I have pointed out we have still in the main profited from and continue to profit from the world as it is.

Buy anything on credit? Thank a bank.
Eat fruit in winter? Thank a multinational business.
Listen to a song on an iPod? Thank a corporation.

Originally Posted by jviehe

I dont see corporations out their protesting their employees.

With record profits why should they? Deregulation from Clinton and China trade ... at best they complain about regs. Why they would have to protest in the street when they have a voice in legislation is beyond me.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

I've done nothing of the sort. I have pointed out we have still in the main profited from and continue to profit from the world as it is.

We=minority of people on the planet. Most other people and all other life forms have suffered immeasurably. Do you admit their is a problem with the status quo at least?

Buy anything on credit? Thank a bank.
Eat fruit in winter? Thank a multinational business.
Listen to a song on an iPod? Thank a corporation.

Wow, only a few steps away from fascism i see. Did you also cry when Steve jobs kicked the bucket?

Originally Posted by Andrewl

We=minority of people on the planet. Most other people and all other life forms have suffered immeasurably. Do you admit their is a problem with the status quo at least?

What....the world isn't perfect....who'd have thought. As a human I do tend to put us above all other species in all accounts but as we have the capacity to look beyond our personal immediate needs we should husband resources to our continued advantage.

If I see a bear attacking a person and I have a gun, I'm not shooting the person.

Wow, only a few steps away from fascism i see.

Supporting capitalism makes one a fascist these days?

I thought fascists joined clubs, attended meetings, marched around in uniforms and decided their opinions were more important than those of everyone else by some special property of their origin.

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

What....the world isn't perfect....who'd have thought. As a human I do tend to put us above all other species in all accounts but as we have the capacity to look beyond our personal immediate needs we should husband resources to our continued advantage.

If you are suggesting we need to change the way we do business, the way we develop and consume resources in order to continue our survival on this planet i agree.

If I see a bear attacking a person and I have a gun, I'm not shooting the person.

Depends on the situation for me. I can imagine all kinds of situations where i would just cheer on the bear, like if it was the CEO of Wyerhauser or Exxon or the Koch brothers for instance.

Supporting capitalism makes one a fascist these days?

I thought fascists joined clubs, attended meetings, marched around in uniforms and decided their opinions were more important than those of everyone else by some special property of their origin.

Thanking corporations when one considers the balance of their impact to this earth and to human and non human communities over the medium and long term seems misplaced. I am repulsed by it.

Fascism is the corporate take over of the state - america has almost completed that process. When it is suggested that i start thanking corporations i can see that this culture is more than ready for it.

Originally Posted by Andrewl

Depends on the situation for me. I can imagine all kinds of situations where i would just cheer on the bear, like if it was the CEO of Wyerhauser or Exxon or the Koch brothers for instance.

That's pretty sick. Seriously. Disagreeing with you means you cheer for their death or serious injury?

WTF, over?

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

I've done nothing of the sort. I have pointed out we have still in the main profited from and continue to profit from the world as it is.

Buy anything on credit? Thank a bank.
Eat fruit in winter? Thank a multinational business.
Listen to a song on an iPod? Thank a corporation.

You forgot one:

Want to go on the internet and whinge about consumerism? Thank a few corporations.

Now we have a new OWS mini documentary on the cusp of going viral -


Sooooo....these hippies think that they're on a par with Libyans, Syrians, Egyptians and Iranians? Is one of them willing to become the next Neda Soltan?

How many of these idgets have taken a bullet or picked up a gun to defend this country that is supposedly so oppressive? Did Qadaffi or Mubarak or Asaad come out and say "Hey, you have the right to protest and can stay in the park as long as you want. Just don't break the law"?

These little hippie wannabe's and their equally repugnant hippie used-to-be's have no freaking clue about what freedom is and have obviously never experienced the lack of freedom that exists in parts of the world. For them a little spray of mace is the equivalent of having your whole family snatched and killed because you made an "unacceptable" twitter post about the regime. For them being stuck with debt after using someone else's money to get a PhD in Medieval literature and music and then not being able to find a job is oppression? Running out of sugar packets at Starbucks is corporate greed run amok.

Yeah, these twerps disgust me but they also scare the hell out of me because they are the ones who will be in charge as I'm on my way out and I'm pretty fucking concerned that everything I've worked for and everything I've saved and every sacrifice I've made to prepare for that day will be taken away "for the greater good".