Thread: The American Conservative (Continuing Series)

Originally Posted by thanatos144

For fucks sake. Not everything is a cerebral exercise. Sometimes it is just the simple truth even if it doesn't fit your ideology.

Too funny and TOO honest.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

There are limits on everything that exists. You, as a person, cannot put limits on my sovereignty unless you use force.

Well, hell, neither can the government. So...???

Originally Posted by John Drake

Well, hell, neither can the government. So...???

So:

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

There are limits on everything that exists. You, as a person, cannot put limits on my sovereignty unless you use force.

Originally Posted by John Drake

You're still not sovereign as a person if I can put limits on your activities.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

A non-tyrannical government does NOT tell a soverign what to do - only the limits of its sovereignty; what a sovereign person CANNOT do. This is the difference between freedom and slavery.

Sovereignty devolved to the people as John Jay said and that means each individual is sovereign (with no subjects). Sovereignty = Liberty. For some reason, your entire understanding of political philosophy is that people are not and should not be free where mine is the precise opposite, people are and should be free (meaning limited government). Some Liberals agree that government is limited - but only to the extent of the material wealth that exists but not morally limited, which is what is meant by the DOI and US Constitution.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

So:







Sovereignty devolved to the people as John Jay said and that means each individual is sovereign (with no subjects). Sovereignty = Liberty. For some reason, your entire understanding of political philosophy is that people are not and should not be free where mine is the precise opposite, people are and should be free (meaning limited government). Some Liberals agree that government is limited - but only to the extent of the material wealth that exists but not morally limited, which is what is meant by the DOI and US Constitution.

So to be real, where DOES one go to achieve such defined liberty.
Surely there's some actual place untainted by the human political aggregate.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

So to be real, where DOES one go to achieve such defined liberty.
Surely there's some actual place untainted by the human political aggregate.

So your excuse is that "nobody else does it" kind of ignores the sole two functions of government.

Steal things, kill people. When individuals attempt to live without government control, government kills them, or steals what they have, then kills them.

Originally Posted by 9aces

So your excuse is that "nobody else does it" kind of ignores the sole two functions of government.

Steal things, kill people. When individuals attempt to live without government control, government kills them, or steals what they have, then kills them.

I'm being realistic.
Let's say the IRS decides you owe money you don't.
Their computerized system garnishes the money.
What are you going to do about it?
Call the ACLU and wait 10 years to get the money back?

It no longer matters what's on paper as long as someone can give a speech containing fictitious information and leave the crowd believing it.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

I'm being realistic.
Let's say the IRS decides you owe money you don't.
Their computerized system garnishes the money.
What are you going to do about it?
Call the ACLU and wait 10 years to get the money back?

It no longer matters what's on paper as long as someone can give a speech containing fictitious information and leave the crowd believing it.

Well to start with they'll have to find it to get it.

If they manage that feat, start shooting IRS agents.

Originally Posted by 9aces

If they manage that feat, start shooting IRS agents.

I know two; not very bright.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

So:







Sovereignty devolved to the people as John Jay said and that means each individual is sovereign (with no subjects). Sovereignty = Liberty. For some reason, your entire understanding of political philosophy is that people are not and should not be free where mine is the precise opposite, people are and should be free (meaning limited government). Some Liberals agree that government is limited - but only to the extent of the material wealth that exists but not morally limited, which is what is meant by the DOI and US Constitution.

Our entire argument has been nothing more than wrangling to reach an agreement. We are not sovereign entitities as the government can, will and does force us to do what it tells us to. It grants us LIMITED sovereignity, that is the fact of the matter and all the Founding Fathers promised in the Constitution. The conservative is more concerned about one set of freedoms and I another, as I outlined before in post 22 of this thread.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Our entire argument has been nothing more than wrangling to reach an agreement. We are not sovereign entitities as the government can, will and does force us to do what it tells us to. It grants us LIMITED sovereignity, that is the fact of the matter and all the Founding Fathers promised in the Constitution. The conservative is more concerned about one set of freedoms and I another, as I outlined before in post 22 of this thread.

The government cannot force us to do what it tells us to. Some choose to do so, the government's option if you do not choose to do so is kill you which is the only option other than submission.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Our entire argument has been nothing more than wrangling to reach an agreement. We are not sovereign entitities as the government can, will and does force us to do what it tells us to. It grants us LIMITED sovereignity, that is the fact of the matter and all the Founding Fathers promised in the Constitution. The conservative is more concerned about one set of freedoms and I another, as I outlined before in post 22 of this thread.

THAT is the heart of the problem with liberalism.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The government is ours, not the other way around. To wit:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

That you on the left don't 'get it' is why you should never be placed in control of the government again.

Amendment X - The States own your a$$.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

So to be real, where DOES one go to achieve such defined liberty.

The writings of John Locke, of course!