Thread: The American Conservative (Continuing Series)

Originally Posted by John Drake

Actually, I'm a registered Republican...though I've never voted so once in my life. By votes, I'm a member of no organized political entity, I'm a Democrat. And registered Democrats far exceed registered Republicans in almost every state and have for decades.

You can call yourself a Republican and still be an extremely far left liberal.

Which you are.

Originally Posted by John Drake

Why thank you. I hadn't realized there even was a 1798 law justifying Obamacare. I'll have to look that up. As to my appeal on Health Insurance, which is about as far away from what I thought we were discussing as you can get, my appeal there has always been to economics and common sense. You may be healthy NOW but sooner or later the GREATEST possibility is that (God Forbid, but it almost certainly will happen sometime) you will get very sick. If and when that happens, and if you have been unwise or unlucky enough to be without health insurance at the time you WILL, go into an ER and proceed to cost me and the American Public tens of thousands of dollars. Millions do this annually and it is the major reason why our Health Insurance Costs exceed those of every other developed nation on Earth by a substantial margin while giving us only 17th place in overall services, (sorry, no link now, and really unimportant to the discussion, so look it up yourself if you're interested. I've seen it before with some degree of confidence) so I profess the government has an overriding public interest in making sure we all have Health Care Insurance, whether it limits our Freedom or not..

As we've pretty much agreed, NO ONE can be entirely free, so, from the freedoms offered, you pays your money, and you takes your pick. I think mine make more sense than yours but that's the main difference between American Conservatives and American Liberals

Yes, you THINK yours makes more sense when it does not. That is the American liberal in a nutshell, on any topic.

Originally Posted by John Drake

If and when that happens, and if you have been unwise or unlucky enough to be without health insurance at the time you WILL, go into an ER and proceed to cost me and the American Public tens of thousands of dollars.

Unwise? This problem exists because of government. Rather than appeal to common sense of getting government out of it, you make the illogical argument of more government is needed. Not only that but the federal government at that! The federal government NEVER had constitutional authority to dictate health care! Never!

When I am sick I want a doctor not a man with a gun in a far off capital.

Originally Posted by 9aces

You can call yourself a Republican and still be an extremely far left liberal.

Which you are.

Like Geraldo Rivera.

Originally Posted by 9aces

You can call yourself a Republican and still be an extremely far left liberal.

Which you are.

True, true and true. Republicans were founded as the liberal party. And the formal name for the politics I ascribe to is Social Democracy, in Europe I'd be a leftist moderate.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

Unwise? This problem exists because of government. Rather than appeal to common sense of getting government out of it, you make the illogical argument of more government is needed. Not only that but the federal government at that! The federal government NEVER had constitutional authority to dictate health care! Never!

When I am sick I want a doctor not a man with a gun in a far off capital.

So do I. So what?

At the risk of going way off topic HOW would you get government out of it?

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Like Geraldo Rivera.

I'm much better looking.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Yes, you THINK yours makes more sense when it does not. That is the American liberal in a nutshell, on any topic.

Funny, I say the exact same thing about conservatives, only I actually have REASONS why I say so. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by John Drake

Funny, I say the exact same thing about conservatives, only I actually have REASONS why I say so. :rolleyes:

But not facts, facts tend to be on my side.

Originally Posted by 9aces

But not facts, facts tend to be on my side.

If you say so. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by John Drake

At the risk of going way off topic HOW would you get government out of it?

By emphasizing that character matters. A Conservative who recently retired after many years in service said that although he knew his guiding principles he admitted he often felt and sometimes gave in to the pressure of his constituents "to do something." Putting the passion of the moment aside, upon somber reflection a seasoned statesman might acknowledge that sometimes the best thing to do is let things play out - exercise the virtue of patience and restraint.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

By emphasizing that character matters. A Conservative who recently retired after many years in service said that although he knew his guiding principles he admitted he often felt and sometimes gave in to the pressure of his constituents "to do something." Putting the passion of the moment aside, upon somber reflection a seasoned statesman might acknowledge that sometimes the best thing to do is let things play out - exercise the virtue of patience and restraint.

Seasoned statesmen make a good salary and have excellent health benefits; they can afford to sit back and see how things play out.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Seasoned statesmen make a good salary and have excellent health benefits; they can afford to sit back and see how things play out.

Can you afford to have something stupid done in the knee jerk fashion that is today's legislative process? Might help a bit today, will hurt a lot tomorrow.

Are you so blind you refuse to see?

Originally Posted by 9aces

Can you afford to have something stupid done in the knee jerk fashion that is today's legislative process? Might help a bit today, will hurt a lot tomorrow.

Are you so blind you refuse to see?

Sometimes I wonder just how knee-jerk legislation really is.

For example, I don't believe for a second that no one saw the crash coming in 2008 and I believe GW's bail-out was planned well in advance.
I'm not saying people sit back for years in a dark basement and burn candles.
I simply don't think legislation is as random as it might seem.
In fact, the more damaging, the less off-the-cuff.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Sometimes I wonder just how knee-jerk legislation really is.

Most of it. And most of it is in response to reacting to the unintended consequences of previous knee jerk reaction. I mention Obamacare as an example. You cite the crash, which was politically driven inaction because the narrative was to turn mortgage qualification into class-warfare, which I see that (ideology driven) being very different than psychologically drive impulse to react to problems where in the long run the reaction causes more problems than doing nothing.

Said differently, many times there are social ills - economic (unemployment), moral (unwed mothers), natural disasters (Mt St Helens explosion) - that the coercive force of government makes worse in the long run.