Thread: Three days until North Carolina Amendment One and Marriage Protected

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

Marriage is not a right.

How do you feel about the Equal Protection Clause?

Originally Posted by Sluggo

How do you feel about the Equal Protection Clause?

Feelings have nothing to do with it! The EPC is for equal behavior.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

Marriage is not a right.

The right to enter the same civil legal contracts as any other citizen is a right as defined by the 14th amendment. Are you saying it should also be constitutional for MPOA's to define the gender of the person you can name as your MPOA? If Mississippi wanted to say that you could only assign an opposite sex person as your MPOA... that would be constitutional? If not... why would it be unconstitutional to tell you what gender you can enter into a MPOA contract with, but perfectly constitutional to tell you what gender you can enter into a marriage contract with. Please be specific in your response.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

How do you feel about the Equal Protection Clause?

It doesn't apply. I've gone over this with Goober twice now and destroyed his argument (not that he'd ever admit it).

Originally Posted by Unique POV

The right to enter the same civil legal contracts as any other citizen is a right as defined by the 14th amendment.

You mean like collecting Social Security at 18 years old? The right to get taxed the same no matter how much one makes? Or do you mean how the Violence Against Women's Act is compliant with the 14th Amendment but some citizens are more equal than others?

Originally Posted by Unique POV

The right to enter the same civil legal contracts as any other citizen is a right as defined by the 14th amendment. Are you saying it should also be constitutional for MPOA's to define the gender of the person you can name as your MPOA? If Mississippi wanted to say that you could only assign an opposite sex person as your MPOA... that would be constitutional? If not... why would it be unconstitutional to tell you what gender you can enter into a MPOA contract with, but perfectly constitutional to tell you what gender you can enter into a marriage contract with. Please be specific in your response.

Apparently you failed to read the wording of the Amendment. It specifically addresses contracts.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

Apparently you failed to read the wording of the Amendment. It specifically addresses contracts.

I'll gladly post the section I believe guaruntees the rights of all citizens to enter into civil legal contracts.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Can you now please post the section that you believe nullifies the rights of some people to avail themselves of some civil legal contracts?

Originally Posted by Unique POV

I'll gladly post the section I believe guaruntees the rights of all citizens to enter into civil legal contracts.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Can you now please post the section that you believe nullifies the rights of some people to avail themselves of some civil legal contracts?

I apologize for being unclear. I meant the NC State Amendment, the last sentence which states: "This section does not prohibit a private party from entering into contracts with another private party; nor does this section prohibit courts from adjudicating the rights of private parties pursuant to such contracts. "

Thus making your position irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

I apologize for being unclear. I meant the NC State Amendment, the last sentence which states: "This section does not prohibit a private party from entering into contracts with another private party; nor does this section prohibit courts from adjudicating the rights of private parties pursuant to such contracts. "

Thus making your position irrelevant.

My position is not irrelevant at all. If the NC amendment is in direct opposition to what the US constitution says... it is not a valid amendment and should and will be overturned at some point in time. No state's constitution overrides the US constitution.

Originally Posted by Unique POV

My position is not irrelevant at all. If the NC amendment is in direct opposition to what the US constitution says... it is not a valid amendment and should and will be overturned at some point in time. No state's constitution overrides the US constitution.

Obviously you are misinterpreting the Equal Protection amendment, at least not in the way that the SCOTUS has interpreted it. States write and enforce licensing and privilege laws all the time.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

Obviously you are misinterpreting the Equal Protection amendment, at least not in the way that the SCOTUS has interpreted it. States write and enforce licensing and privilege laws all the time.

There is a difference between a license and a contract. A contract is valid in all 50 states, due to full faith and credit. If you have assigned an MPOA in NC.... and you move to California... that person is still your MPOA. If you get a license to practice medicine in NC... and you move to California... you will need to get a California license to practice there.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

The EPC is for equal behavior.

Interesting. Because here are the behaviors required to get married in California:

To marry in California, the two parties may not be already married to each other or other individuals. Both parties must appear in person and bring valid picture identification to the County Clerk’s Office to apply for a marriage license in California. Valid picture identification is one that contains a photograph, date of birth, and an issue and expiration date, such as a state issued identification card, drivers license, passport, military identification, etc. Some counties may also require a copy of your birth certificate.

The fee for a marriage license in California varies from county to county. It will cost you between $35.00+ and $100.00+ to get married in California. Some California counties will only accept cash. Please call ahead to verify whether or not you need cash.

Appearing in person, bringing identification, paying for a license... yeah, I'm pretty sure homosexuals engage in that kind of behavior all the time.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

I've given you my reasoning, cited 5000 years of human history, common sense and personal experience. Again, I am greatly amused at your insistence otherwise, attempting to create straw man arguments involving bigotry, homophobia, some odd desire to limit personal liberties of others, or what have you. The obvious reason for you continuing to do so is that they are unable to argue successfully against my actual position.

You have given no reasoning at all. I notice that once again you failed to defend your circular argument. Just like you did the last time you brought this up and I pointed out its nature. But that's expected. It fits the pattern I've seen from gay marriage opponents here for years; proclaim illogical, irrational, faith-and-emotion-based arguments for discrimination; make no attempt to provide any rational support for your position; come back later and repeat the same tired homophobic arguments.
Like I've said I couldn't care less how you feel about homosexuals because it's only a matter of time before these things are put right. I just wish you would stop pretending there is a rational basis for your feelings.